Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 15:32:45 CET schrieb Michael Ströder:

On 11/19/19 2:37 PM, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

looks like 15.2 will want to stay with Python 3.6.x,

Any compelling reason to stay with Python 3.6?

Not from my side. I'm building 800+ python packages with Python 3 from Factory for all 15.* Leaps in home:frispete:python, and that looks good so far (with some pytest related hiccups, fixed in prjconf..). Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2019-11-19, 15:14 GMT, Neal Gompa wrote:

Upgrading to Python 3.7 or 3.8 is a massive ABI breakage. Python ABI is based on major.minor version. There's literally no way Python is going to get upgraded that way in SLE 15.

Just to confirm. There is no way we upgrade the basic python (or python3) in SLE. Perhaps, if there will be too big demand from our paying customers we may develop something like python36 or python27 we have in some older SLEs. However, there are no plans for doing that in SLE-15 so far (and it is too early for that). Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mcepl@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 Whenever Christ our life is revealed, then also you will be revealed with Him in glory. -- Colossians 3:4 (Green's Literal Translation) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Lubos, Matěj, Am Donnerstag, 21. November 2019, 15:53:17 CET schrieb Lubos Kocman:

Hello team,

I've just opened jsc#PM-1482 to track "Hans-Peter's user story". in SLE-15 targeting both SP2/SP3 and notified PM.

What does that mean. Am I guilty? Of course, but what am I accused for? ;-)

Cheers

Lubos

________________________________________ From: Matěj Cepl Sent: Thursday, 21 November 2019 15:32 To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Leap 15.2: python3 and blender 2.80

On 2019-11-19, 15:14 GMT, Neal Gompa wrote:

...

Upgrading to Python 3.7 or 3.8 is a massive ABI breakage. Python ABI is based on major.minor version. There's literally no way Python is going to get upgraded that way in SLE 15.

Just to confirm. There is no way we upgrade the basic python (or python3) in SLE. Perhaps, if there will be too big demand from our paying customers we may develop something like python36 or python27 we have in some older SLEs. However, there are no plans for doing that in SLE-15 so far (and it is too early for that).

Thanks to a magician named Stefan Brüns, we solved this problem with a patch to blender, that replaced the direct Python 3.7 API calls with some, that are available with 3.6. Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Lubos, Am Freitag, 22. November 2019, 11:57:28 CET schrieb Lubos Kocman:

Hello Hans-Peter, I just proactively opened a feature request for SLE-15 SP2/SP3, and questioned whether some customer could find a use for python-3.8, perhaps in the same scenario as you as that would in the end solve Leap's issue as well.

Thanks a lot for taking these steps proactively.

However Ludwig just approached me that Leap found another solution, therefore it seems like it can be cancelled, unless Blender would have some noticeable performance improvements with newer python.

Yes, I mentioned this a few lines below (in that mail) as well. I could imagine, that there is a strong interest for a current Blender (2.81) in the SLE-15 distribution. The only hurdle is the legal approval of the Intel OpenImageDenoiser (oidn) in Factory: https://build.opensuse.org/package/requests/graphics/OpenImageDenoise But, as Stephan has mentioned today in the telegram thread, the legal review queue is stalled at the moment... Once, this one is approved, we're ready to submit Blender 2.81 to graphics, and forward it to Leap and Factory immediately. Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 25. November 2019, 13:42:19 CET schrieb Stefan Brüns:

On Montag, 25. November 2019 12:26:46 CET Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

Hi Lubos,

Am Freitag, 22. November 2019, 11:57:28 CET schrieb Lubos Kocman:

...

Hello Hans-Peter, I just proactively opened a feature request for SLE-15 SP2/SP3, and questioned whether some customer could find a use for python-3.8, perhaps in the same scenario as you as that would in the end solve Leap's issue as well.

Thanks a lot for taking these steps proactively.

...

However Ludwig just approached me that Leap found another solution, therefore it seems like it can be cancelled, unless Blender would have some noticeable performance improvements with newer python.

Yes, I mentioned this a few lines below (in that mail) as well.

I could imagine, that there is a strong interest for a current Blender (2.81) in the SLE-15 distribution.

The only hurdle is the legal approval of the Intel OpenImageDenoiser (oidn)

in Factory: https://build.opensuse.org/package/requests/graphics/OpenImageDenoise

You can (and have to) keep oidn optional (bcond) in blender, as OIDN is x86_64 with >= SSE 4.1 only.

I do this already: %ifarch x86_64 %bcond_without embree %bcond_without oidn %else %bcond_with embree %bcond_with oidn %endif

Keep it optional for all, and then switch it for x86_64 as soon as OIDN lands in TW. Blender 2.81 then can go through source and legal review in parallel.

SR with oidn disabled placed now in graphics. Thanks, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 16:32:00 CET schrieb Ludwig Nussel:

Hans-Peter Jansen schrieb:

...

looks like 15.2 will want to stay with Python 3.6.x, which is a bit unfortunate, since this effectively excludes Blender 2.80, which requires Python 3.7 at least.

Although Blender on openSUSE is flying under the radar at the moment, Blender catches quite some interest everywhere, and it would be a pity, if this nice piece of software would be kept out on the next big step of openSUSE. It is up to the maintainer to get the package into 15.2 if needed. Upgrading the system python is out of scope for 15.2 though. If blender wants to be able to run newer versions on stable, maintained distributions, relying on core system components it needs to watch what to put as requirements.

Did you talk to upstream yet? Maybe they are just not aware and the version requirement was just naive.

Since Python is the base of the heavily used Blender Add-On ecosystem, we cannot just drop these requirements unilaterally. If we cannot ship a feature complete package, we should admit just that. That's the downside of the SLE relationship. Obviously, the only way to deal with this discrepancy correctly is packaging a private Python 3 interpreter, but that's not much fun either. And since Dave Plater doesn't trust me enough to assign co-maintainership to me, that's even less of a motivation. But we shouldn't confuse people with half-baked solutions, which harms the project as a whole in the end... Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 18:45:58 CET schrieb Brüns, Stefan:

On Dienstag, 19. November 2019 17:29:37 CET Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 16:32:00 CET schrieb Ludwig Nussel:

...

Hans-Peter Jansen schrieb:

...

looks like 15.2 will want to stay with Python 3.6.x, which is a bit unfortunate, since this effectively excludes Blender 2.80, which requires Python 3.7 at least.

As far as I can see, blender only requires a single function from the 3.7 C API, which can be replaced by two function calls available in 3.6 (probably older). The new function is slightly faster, but that should not matter for the 2 places where it is used.

Please have a look at the blender package in my home repo:

...

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:StefanBruens:branches:graphic s/ blender

Hey Stefan, magic! If that's all, then let's go for it. Of course, this might break some Add-Ons, but since their authors doesn't code in Rust, the fall-out will be limited. What we will need is getting the dependencies into 15.2 quickly. Thanks, well done. Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch, 20. November 2019, 13:26:10 CET schrieb Dave Plater:

On 19/11/2019 22:04, Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 18:45:58 CET schrieb Brüns, Stefan:

...

On Dienstag, 19. November 2019 17:29:37 CET Hans-Peter Jansen wrote:

...

Am Dienstag, 19. November 2019, 16:32:00 CET schrieb Ludwig Nussel:

...

Hans-Peter Jansen schrieb:

...

looks like 15.2 will want to stay with Python 3.6.x, which is a bit unfortunate, since this effectively excludes Blender 2.80, which requires Python 3.7 at least.

As far as I can see, blender only requires a single function from the 3.7 C API, which can be replaced by two function calls available in 3.6 (probably older). The new function is slightly faster, but that should not matter for the 2 places where it is used.

Please have a look at the blender package in my home repo:

...

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:StefanBruens:branches:graph ic s/

blender

Hey Stefan, magic!

If that's all, then let's go for it. Of course, this might break some Add-Ons, but since their authors doesn't code in Rust, the fall-out will be limited.

What we will need is getting the dependencies into 15.2 quickly.

Thanks, well done.

Cheers, Pete

I'm waiting on the submit request. Dave Plater

Done. Cheers, Pete -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org