[opensuse-factory] opensuse-updater: "Check for any kind updates" option?

older
[opensuse-factory] Alpha 4 and 5...

Rafał Miłecki

2 Jul 2007 2 Jul '07

20:12

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---------------------------------------------------------------------To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Show replies by date

Martin Schlander

2 Jul 2 Jul

20:41

Den Monday 02 July 2007 22:12:01 skrev Rafał Miłecki:

...

Could some developer focus on this bug before publishing 10.3? It wouldn't be nice to remove ZMD and don't give any alternative wayof watching repositories for updates of _any_ kind (not these securityones only).

I think Duncan stated the position pretty clearly in the bugzilla comments (#54). "This feature can be consideered. But it is not a priority. We are making the updater more modular so you can plugin backends and behaviour, that feature will come naturally." Personally I think it's a good position. I much prefer the package management devs to work on libzypp performance and the like, rather than a feature that does far more harm than good. .. and with the rewritten libzypp and the cachestore it'll be pretty fast to check. zypper lu -t package or yast sw_single -> Package -> all packages -> update if newer avaialable --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Benji Weber

20:51

-On 02/07/07, Rafał Miłecki wrote:

...

There is a well-discused bug on bugzilla: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216097 about opensuse-updater.

I posted some idea of resolving this, which I find quite fine. You can find this in comment #57: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=216097#c57 Could some developer focus on this bug before publishing 10.3?

Unfortunately, it's not quite as simple as simply implementing checking for upgrades as an opt-in option. openSUSE-updater currently only notifies of updates and YOU installs them. So one would have to implement a GUI for upgrade-all packages functionality in YaST too. If it were as simple as adding a checkbox to adjust the priority of the packages to notify for it would have been done by now. There are also other things to be decided, like how to resolve package vendor "bouncing" where the user has e.g. guru & kde-backports repositories subscribed and the updater first updates to one then the other version of amarok, gaining and losing the additional functionality. e.g. just because a user subscribes to packman to get mp3 support and wishes to get upgrades to the packman packages he or she has installed, doesn't mean that he or she also wishes to change vendor of all suse packages to packman newer version. e.g. User probably doesn't want to install packman's somewhat broken alsa unless he or she has a problem with the suse version. Zen-updater's upgrade-all policy was fairly broken and no thought given to these kind of issues, (even had problems with multilib) it would be good to avoid that where possible. It may be we need 3 policies: - Updates only (as default now) - Updates and version upgrades from same vendor as installed package (e.g. if you install xine from packman you will get upgrades always from packman, but not from an alternative vendor, fixes the bouncing problem) - Upgrades from all vendors indiscriminately - like smart upgrade etc. (For people who have the knowledge to fix their system if the package manager does something stupid.) There are some strong opinions on this subject, It might be worth re-opening the discussion though. Meanwhile you can of course always "zypper up -t package" to upgrade all packages to newer versions indiscriminately. _ Benjamin Weber

Rajko M.

23:24

Hi Benji, On Monday 02 July 2007 15:51, Benji Weber wrote:

...

It may be we need 3 policies:

- Updates only (as default now)

This is important for every user, and leaves system stable.

...

- Updates and version upgrades from same vendor as installed package (e.g. if you install xine from packman you will get upgrades always from packman, but not from an alternative vendor, fixes the bouncing problem)

This is fine for repositories that have no updates (fixes) like openSUSE, but offer newer version instead, which may require newer versions of dependencies, which can lead to avalanche of upgrade requests to satisfy newly created dependencies, and even if it is possible to find solution, after that system can't receive any security fixes trough regular updates. Some security holes will be patched by itself trough newer version of programs, some not.

...

- Upgrades from all vendors indiscriminately - like smart upgrade etc. (For people who have the knowledge to fix their system if the package manager does something stupid.)

Even if package manager doesn't do anything bad, users will at some point by telling PM to ignore dependencies, and end result is for sure system in undefined state, which mean it can be anything from stable to fairly broken.

...

There are some strong opinions on this subject, It might be worth re-opening the discussion though.

It is opened, for anyone that has opinion ;-) -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Klaus Kaempf

3 Jul 3 Jul

07:06

* Benji Weber [Jul 02. 2007 22:51]:

...

There are also other things to be decided, like how to resolve package vendor "bouncing" where the user has e.g. guru & kde-backports repositories subscribed and the updater first updates to one then the other version of amarok, gaining and losing the additional functionality.

Actually, thats the biggest problem when 'blindly' updating all packages.

...

Zen-updater's upgrade-all policy was fairly broken and no thought given to these kind of issues, (even had problems with multilib) it would be good to avoid that where possible.

Remember that zen-updater was designed with a ZLM (zenwork linux mgmt) server in mind. The server always shows the client a 'perfect' world and installing all upgrades is the right approach in this environment. However, this fails when deployed in a more 'hostile' environment with lots of 3rd party repositories.

...

It may be we need 3 policies:

- Updates only (as default now) - Updates and version upgrades from same vendor as installed package (e.g. if you install xine from packman you will get upgrades always from packman, but not from an alternative vendor, fixes the bouncing problem) - Upgrades from all vendors indiscriminately - like smart upgrade etc. (For people who have the knowledge to fix their system if the package manager does something stupid.)

There might be even another approach - updating by repository. Looking at a typical system, one usually has - the installation repository (i.e. openSuSE 10.2) - the update repository (for openSuSE 10.2) - one or more add-on repositories (packman, guru, ...) Under the assumption that each repository by itself is consistent, one should be able to 'update all' on a per-repository basis. The default would be "update everything", starting with the updates for openSuSE 10.2 first, then the other add-ons. One could also restrict updates to a specific repo only. So if you have e.g. KDE4 subscribed, you should be able to update only packages coming from the KDE4 repo. This basically introduces priorities on repositories, with the update repo of the installed OS at the highest prio. Probably a project for the next hack-week ... ;-) Klaus --- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

09:32

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-07-03 at 09:06 +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote: ...

...

There might be even another approach - updating by repository.

Why not "find out what is updatable and show a list where I can choose from? Ie, a selection to choose aside from "security patches only / all". - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGihe5tTMYHG2NR9URAmbcAJ4zrpsjcrCGENqsjRl5c7T1lxOCWQCbBU4g QImUsdLXea9uHCVRz5p5wTA= =L3xF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Klaus Kaempf

11:48

* Carlos E. R. [Jul 03. 2007 11:32]:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

The Tuesday 2007-07-03 at 09:06 +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

...

...
There might be even another approach - updating by repository.

Why not "find out what is updatable and show a list where I can choose from? Ie, a selection to choose aside from "security patches only / all".

The problem is to "find out what is updatable". Maybe an update from one repo conflicts with another. Which one to choose ? Klaus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

4 Jul 4 Jul

00:43

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Tuesday 2007-07-03 at 13:48 +0200, Klaus Kaempf wrote:

...

...
...
There might be even another approach - updating by repository.

Why not "find out what is updatable and show a list where I can choose from? Ie, a selection to choose aside from "security patches only / all".

The problem is to "find out what is updatable". Maybe an update from one repo conflicts with another. Which one to choose ?

Ahhh... oops, right. Mmm... Then, show what is updatable for each repo, perhaps show a list by repo? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Made with pgp4pine 1.76 iD8DBQFGiu0jtTMYHG2NR9URAosbAJ9+nPWgo9bJ1dYBpW1KeXtGCYJHsgCfQkmz KkXe4pcpQ0+zvy4peZBPwMM= =Lrs1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org