so i should NOT install these updates? strange.... thank you.... ______________________________________________________________________________________ My Twitter Page: http://twitter.com/OpenSimFan My Facebook page (be my friend, please ) http://www.facebook.com/andre.verwijs My Google+ page (follow me please ) André Verwijs - Google+ https://plus.google.com/111310545842863442992 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 08:50:28AM -0500, Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

On 03/03/2015 02:48 PM, André Verwijs wrote:

...

Linux 3.19.0-2-desktop openSUSE 20150227 (Tumbleweed) (x86_64) KDE 4.14.5

i'm having trouble with security updates. They only show up with Apper, zypper shows nothing....

You should only be using zypper dup with TW. Since TW is a rolling release there currently are no "update" repos.

Calling "zypper up" is all you need. dup might lead to changing vendors. We had this recently on this list. If dup is the recommended way from the documentation in the wiki it has to be enhanced. Cheers, Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team + SUSE Labs SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

* Roman Bysh [03-04-15 16:02]:

On 03/04/2015 03:16 PM, Lars Müller wrote:

...

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 08:50:28AM -0500, Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

...

On 03/03/2015 02:48 PM, André Verwijs wrote:

...

Linux 3.19.0-2-desktop openSUSE 20150227 (Tumbleweed) (x86_64) KDE 4.14.5

i'm having trouble with security updates. They only show up with Apper, zypper shows nothing....

You should only be using zypper dup with TW. Since TW is a rolling release there currently are no "update" repos.

Calling "zypper up" is all you need.

dup might lead to changing vendors. We had this recently on this list.

If dup is the recommended way from the documentation in the wiki it has to be enhanced.

Cheers,

Lars

You need zypper dup to preserve Packman packages from being deleted.

Sorry, but this makes *no* sense..?? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 03/04/2015 04:59 PM, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Mittwoch, 4. März 2015 schrieb Lars Müller:

...

On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 08:50:28AM -0500, Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

...

On 03/03/2015 02:48 PM, André Verwijs wrote:

...

Linux 3.19.0-2-desktop openSUSE 20150227 (Tumbleweed) (x86_64) KDE 4.14.5

i'm having trouble with security updates. They only show up with Apper, zypper shows nothing....

You should only be using zypper dup with TW. Since TW is a rolling release there currently are no "update" repos.

Calling "zypper up" is all you need.

dup might lead to changing vendors. We had this recently on this list.

If dup is the recommended way from the documentation in the wiki it has to be enhanced.

The differences between up and dup are: - dup does vendor changes - dup allows downgrades (smaller version number), for exampe if a broken package went in and is rolled back - (not sure if there are more differences)

This means zypper up will work most of the times, but not always.

What we really need is a zypper dup mode that keeps the vendor ;-)

Fortunately there's already something in the pipeline, see https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=893807

The most interesting comment is probably:

With libzypp-14.29.1 you can disable the VENDORCHANGE on dup like this:

SOLVER_FLAG_DUP_ALLOW_VENDORCHANGE=0 zypper dup

Available in https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/zypp:Head.

Regards,

Christian Boltz

That is great news. -- Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 05/03/15 00:50, Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

On 03/03/2015 02:48 PM, Andr� Verwijs wrote:

...

Linux 3.19.0-2-desktop openSUSE 20150227 (Tumbleweed) (x86_64) KDE 4.14.5

i'm having trouble with security updates. They only show up with Apper, zypper shows nothing....

You should only be using zypper dup with TW. Since TW is a rolling release there currently are no "update" repos.

This only adds confusion to what TW is all about....... :-( . I have a copy of TW installed on the laptop. When I am in the mood I run 'zypper refresh' in TW - and occasionally (like a couple of days ago) - when I then run 'zypper patch' and 'zypper up' I get a list of lots and lots of files to be updated and/or replaced. Note: I have never run 'zypper dup' but only 'zypper up' on TW. So what you are telling me is that I must always run 'zypper dup' and not 'zypper up' on TW? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.4 & kernel 3.19.0-5 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 06/03/15 00:07, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [03-05-15 00:05]:

...

On 05/03/15 00:50, Ken Schneider - Factory wrote:

...

On 03/03/2015 02:48 PM, Andr� Verwijs wrote:

...

Linux 3.19.0-2-desktop openSUSE 20150227 (Tumbleweed) (x86_64) KDE 4.14.5

i'm having trouble with security updates. They only show up with Apper, zypper shows nothing....

You should only be using zypper dup with TW. Since TW is a rolling release there currently are no "update" repos. This only adds confusion to what TW is all about....... :-( .

I have a copy of TW installed on the laptop.

When I am in the mood I run 'zypper refresh' in TW - and occasionally (like a couple of days ago) - when I then run 'zypper patch' and 'zypper up' I get a list of lots and lots of files to be updated and/or replaced.

Note: I have never run 'zypper dup' but only 'zypper up' on TW.

So what you are telling me is that I must always run 'zypper dup' and not 'zypper up' on TW? You can run whatever you wish. Choose what works for your work-flow. [pruned]

I choose to run "dup" for Tw installs and "up" for servers.

Alright, OK, Oh Great Guru. Here's the question: I don't run a server but have TW installed on a laptop as I already stated. I haven't updated TW for some days but a few minutes ago decided to update it. I ran 'zypper refresh' and then input first 'zypper dup' then 'zypper up' but did not actually run these. 'zypper dup' produced the following output: 182 packages to upgrade 3 packages to downgrade 18 new packages to install 18 packages to be removed 72 packages to change vendor 'zypper up' produced the following output: 65 package updates will not be installed 12 new packages to be installed 116 packages to be upgraded Dear Guru, Which should I run, 'zypper dup' or 'zypper up'? Or should I go back to using Windows? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.4 & kernel 3.19.0-5 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

В Sat, 07 Mar 2015 01:29:33 -0500 Felix Miata пишет:

If you don't want what will before long become a mongrel, only ever do dup on TW, as the currently installed packages will in the not very distant future no longer be available on any repos.

I do not see any connection between the two parts of this sentence, sorry. Yes, currently installed packages will be replaced by newer versions of the same packages and "up" will update them. Where is the problem? The primary reason for "dup" to exist is to allow vendor change, because every new openSUSE release has new "vendor". There is no vendor change in current TW, so this does not apply. Second consideration is that there is no strict release ordering between different repositories in OBS, packages in new openSUSE release may appear "older" than packages that are currently installed. "Dup" tells to replace everything that is installed with packages from configured repositories without comparing versions. Again, as today TW is expected to be monotonically increasing this does not really apply. So I really wonder what is the reason to use dup beyond "because we have been using it forever"? Can you give more technical explanation than "mongrel"? Can you provide example where "up" fails and "dup" not on current TW? Of course for the very first switch from openSUSE to TW you would need "dup", not "up". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 7 March 2015 at 14:53, Ken Schneider - Factory

In how people understand how TW works. Every version release is a "NEW" distribution release (the same as going from openSuSE 13.1 to 13.2) and requires dup be used to correctly perform the distribution upgrade.

-- Ken Schneider

You're only half correct - the primary reason for dup is to allow zypper to search all repositories, all vendors, for the latest version of the packages for the system This is important for upgrading from one Regular Release version to another (eg 13.1 to 13.2) because the repositories are changing, from 13.1 to 13.2 In the case of Tumbleweed - the repositories do not change, even though you're correct that technically each Tumbleweed snapshot is a new OS version. For most people upgrading Tumbleweed, zypper up makes perfect sense In lay terms, you're telling zypper "get me the latest updates that match the packages/repositories I installed. Don't change repos, don't change vendors, just gimme updates for what I installed, from where I installed it' zypper dup on the otherhand is a lot more risky "Give me the latest version of everything from anywhere I have configured". Depending on your combination of repositories, that can lead to unexpected integration problems. Even with a single additional repository, it's worth keeping in mind we only openQA test the main Tumbleweed repos, we -know- that works every snapshot, we -hope- it works with everything else. Spelling it out that way, do you see why I don't think recommending zypper dup to everyone using Tumbleweed, all the time, is a good idea? So, I'm going to provide my advice - this is what I do - if it's not good advice, may wiser people like Coolo slap me down --- MY RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE --- For Daily/Regular 'I want to update my system' patching of openSUSE Tumbleweed, use zypper up --- /END MY RECOMMEND PROCEDURE This advice is doubled in strength, loudness, and intensity, if you're using additional repositories, such as Packman, in order to avoid potential unexpected extra packages from those repositories. Occasionally, it might be a good idea to do a zypper dup, just in case, as an extra maintenance step, on the off chance something in the openSUSE Tumbleweed repos got downgraded or otherwise shifted about in a way that zypper up misses. This is a relatively safe procedure we no additional repositories, however, you need to take care with any additional repositories, either taking note what is shifting over to them, or disabling them and adding back what is missing afterwards. I wouldn't want to do that every day. Hope this helps -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 7 March 2015 at 18:17, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

So use `zypper dup -r tum` or something. The answer is still: "use dup".

On 7 March 2015 at 16:59, Richard Brown wrote:

For most people upgrading Tumbleweed, zypper up makes perfect sense

--- MY RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE --- For Daily/Regular 'I want to update my system' patching of openSUSE Tumbleweed, use zypper up --- /END MY RECOMMEND PROCEDURE

This advice is doubled in strength, loudness, and intensity, if you're using additional repositories, such as Packman, in order to avoid potential unexpected extra packages from those repositories.

*My* answer is "don't use dup" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 2015-03-07 19:35, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

On Saturday 2015-03-07 16:59, Richard Brown wrote:

...

...

In how people understand how TW works. Every version release is a "NEW" distribution release (the same as going from openSuSE 13.1 to 13.2) and requires dup be used to correctly perform the distribution upgrade.

You're only half correct - the primary reason for dup is to allow zypper to search all repositories, all vendors, for the latest version of the packages for the system

...

In the case of Tumbleweed - the repositories do not change, even though you're correct that technically each Tumbleweed snapshot is a new OS version.

So use `zypper dup -r tum` or something. The answer is still: "use dup".

Why? You conveniently trimmed long explanation why "dup" is not needed.

It's needed (or at least: desirable), because downgrades can happen (though not often), and "up" won't do them. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday, March 07, 2015 04:59:35 PM Richard Brown wrote:

--- MY RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE --- For Daily/Regular 'I want to update my system' patching of openSUSE Tumbleweed, use zypper up --- /END MY RECOMMEND PROCEDURE

I'll offer my two cents. First, note that I gave the packman repo priority 98, and the standard repos priority 99. I want it to prefer packman, where there is a choice. Recently, I have been using: zypper up zypper dup -D The first of those does what should be a safe update. The second tells me what else "zypper dup" would do. The differences are typically small and probably don't matter for what I mostly do. At present, I am testing a bug fix (which doesn't fully fix the bug). A "zypper dup" would uninstall that bug fix that I am testing. I prefer to keep it there for the present, which is why I am using "up". After the "zypper dup -D" (that's a "dry run"), I will sometimes manually do some of the additional changes. I do that with Yast software manager and the "versions" tab. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Richard Brown composed on 2015-03-07 16:59 (UTC+0100):

You're only half correct - the primary reason for dup is to allow zypper to search all repositories, all vendors, for the latest version of the packages for the system

This is important for upgrading from one Regular Release version to another (eg 13.1 to 13.2) because the repositories are changing, from 13.1 to 13.2

Absolutely.

In the case of Tumbleweed - the repositories do not change, even

Standard repo names don't change, but unlike regular releases, what's in them routinely changes. Dependencies change. Major versions change, usually up, sometimes down. Some packages disappear. Others are introduced.

though you're correct that technically each Tumbleweed snapshot is a new OS version.

+1

For most people upgrading Tumbleweed, zypper up makes perfect sense In lay terms, you're telling zypper "get me the latest updates that match the packages/repositories I installed. Don't change repos, don't change vendors, just gimme updates for what I installed, from where I installed it'

At some point this means no longer running TW, because TW changes, and you wind up using orphans, if you only ever use up.

zypper dup on the otherhand is a lot more risky "Give me the latest version of everything from anywhere I have configured". Depending on your combination of repositories, that can lead to unexpected integration problems. Even with a single additional repository, it's worth keeping in mind we only openQA test the main Tumbleweed repos, we -know- that works every snapshot, we -hope- it works with everything else.

If you have other repos configured, you're not using TW, just something based on TW. By taking on other repos you're taking on additional responsibility for your choice, and associated additional risk.

Spelling it out that way, do you see why I don't think recommending zypper dup to everyone using Tumbleweed, all the time, is a good idea?

IOW, you recommend everybody not actually use TW, just claim to be. Without using dup, you're not using TW, just something based on it originally, when you installed it or upgraded to it from a regular release.

So, I'm going to provide my advice - this is what I do - if it's not good advice, may wiser people like Coolo slap me down

Too bad this is a weekend thread. I'm anxious to see what if any response the thread gets from Coolo.

--- MY RECOMMENDED PROCEDURE --- For Daily/Regular 'I want to update my system' patching of openSUSE Tumbleweed, use zypper up --- /END MY RECOMMEND PROCEDURE

This advice is doubled in strength, loudness, and intensity, if you're using additional repositories, such as Packman, in order to avoid potential unexpected extra packages from those repositories.

This is fine for those whose use case is uniqueness. Once other repos are added, it isn't TW any more, but a hybrid. Hybrids require more interaction from the user, and unavoidably, add risk. To more easily deal with risk, what Neil does makes sense. First up, then dup -D to segregate out the more significant changes, and optionally disable any that might be a problem you want to avoid via locks, before actually dup'ing.

Occasionally, it might be a good idea to do a zypper dup, just in case, as an extra maintenance step, on the off chance something in the openSUSE Tumbleweed repos got downgraded or otherwise shifted about in a way that zypper up misses.

"Off chance"? Downgrades happen. Orphans happen. Deps change. It's not a question of whether, only when.

This is a relatively safe procedure we no additional repositories, however, you need to take care with any additional repositories, either taking note what is shifting over to them, or disabling them and adding back what is missing afterwards.

If risk is a problem, you're using the wrong release. TW is not for you.

I wouldn't want to do that every day.

Every day implies low risk aversion. High risk aversion implies TW is a poor choice. If you need something from a non-standard repo, you need to be involved, less risk averse, as you're not using TW any more once you've made such an addition. I handle optional repo packages via repo management, and locks. If I need one package, I may just fetch it with web browser, mc(ftp) or wget. That way I have the package on disk to remind me after installing it if I have chosen to not set a lock on it. For a related group of packages within a repo, I enable the repo, install the packages, then disable the repo, so that a subsequent dup won't pull other packages from it; and optionally lock as many of the installed packages as required to prevent "downgrade" or "vendor change" on a subsequent dup. Dup functions as a synchronizer, tumbling the installation along as TW itself tumbles, removing what the repos no longer contain, matching installed versions to what the repos do contain. Technically, using up to the exclusion of dup amounts to not using TW, just something that used to be. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Andrei Borzenkov composed on 2015-03-08 07:57 (UTC+0300):

Felix Miata composed:

...

Standard repo names don't change, but unlike regular releases, what's in them routinely changes. Dependencies change.

You mean this never happens with new updates in regular release?

Never say never, or always....

...

Major versions change, usually up,

Do you claim that "zypper up" will not update package to a higher major version? How does major version change is different from release number change from package management point of view?

Regular releases and Factory now Tumbleweed are different critters. Regular releases' oss and non-oss repos are defined at release time. Changes are supposed to take place in updates. Whether they ever do or did in oss and/or non-oss I don't know, but any such occurrence is not normal. In TW, updates sees little use. In stark contrast to releases, the main repos are in a more or less constant state of change. When new arrive, old disappear. It only makes sense that the updating/upgrading process would have some resolver optimization differences according to the different nature of the repos.

...

sometimes down.

How often does it happen?

I don't track such things.

You are aware that sometimes broken update for regular release is removed from mirrors and those who installed it have to downgrade?

Updates may get removed from release repos, but not oss and non-oss originals. AFAIK, DVDs/isos have always gotten carved in stone.

How it is different here?

Jan seems to have explained the difference well enough.

...

Some packages disappear. Others are introduced.

You seem to imply that "dup" will magically follow it. It will not. Unless new package is prerequisite for some other, already installed, package, it will not be installed by "zypper dup". Nor will package be ever removed by "zypper dup" unless it conflicts with something else. Which is what standard update does anyway.

I think "disappear" is not so simple. I'm thinking of differences in packages completely disappearing for lack of maintainer or upstream abandonment, vs. packages that incorporate versions in their names, e.g. libyui5 vs libyui6. For the former there may or may not be something to substitute, and neither dup nor up is likely to add any replacement or substitute, but for the latter, you'd be getting broken by removing libyui5 and not installing libyui6. Dup will get you libyui6. What up would get I really don't know. I only ever have used dup with Factory and TW.

...

Dup functions as a synchronizer, tumbling the installation along as TW itself tumbles, removing what the repos no longer contain,

No, it does not remove "what repo no longer contains". Not in my experience.

If it isn't it's a design shortcoming not shared with Yum.

Could you provide example demonstrating that it does it?

It isn't something I keep track of.

...

matching installed versions to what the repos do contain.

Yes. That is the point. Matching versions of INSTALLED packages.

That's not the whole point though. Installed packages for which there are no longer any equivalents on the mirrors, upgrade, same, or otherwise, should be be having dup prefer to remove them, as long as they are unlocked. "Running TW" should normally equate to having installed only packages that exist on mirrors at installation/last update epoch, not whatever is there at those epochs plus things removed from repos in between epochs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 08/03/15 08:57, Felix Miata wrote:

Richard Brown composed on 2015-03-07 16:59 (UTC+0100):

...

You're only half correct - the primary reason for dup is to allow zypper to search all repositories, all vendors, for the latest version of the packages for the system This is important for upgrading from one Regular Release version to another (eg 13.1 to 13.2) because the repositories are changing, from 13.1 to 13.2 Absolutely. [pruned]

So, I'm going to provide my advice - this is what I do - if it's not good advice, may wiser people like Coolo slap me down Too bad this is a weekend thread. I'm anxious to see what if any response the thread gets from Coolo. [pruned]

I suggest that Stephan be advised to go easy on whatever blurb he is going to be presenting at some (?)expo/whatever because from what I have been reading here, and in other threads re TW, overstating any desirable benefits of TW may just backfire against openSUSE as Windows 8 did for MS. Even The Guru couldn't provide a definitive answer to whether I should use 'dup' or 'up'. And Richard tried to provide the answer but got 'argued against'. So, let's just take it that the present TW is a very confused production which nobody seems to really understand or know anything about on what it is meant to be: is it meat or is it fish? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.4 & kernel 3.19.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/03/15 17:53, Olaf Hering wrote:

On Tue, Mar 10, Basil Chupin wrote:

...

Even The Guru couldn't provide a definitive answer to whether I should use 'dup' or 'up'. The answer is: As usual, it depends!

With a mix of regular and devel repos 'up' will preserve vendorship, packages from repo X will be updated just from repo X.

Olaf

Thank you, Olaf. You have adequately covered the point I was trying to make. "As usual....." - 'as usual' when compared to what? "......it depends." - depends on what? BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.4 & kernel 3.19.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Op zaterdag 7 maart 2015 16:48:43 schreef Basil Chupin:

Dear Guru,

Which should I run, 'zypper dup' or 'zypper up'?

Or should I go back to using Windows?

BC

After having installed TW from an iso and added the necessary other repositories, I only use up. Otherwise my choice of from which repository certain packages may come from will be changed. After the up there may be a list of packages that are not updated. So I inspect these packages and sometimes I decide to change the repository from where they should come. -- fr.gr. Freek de Kruijf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 07/03/15 23:56, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Basil Chupin [03-07-15 00:50]:

...

On 06/03/15 00:07, Patrick Shanahan wrote: [...]

...

You can run whatever you wish. Choose what works for your work-flow. [pruned]

...

I choose to run "dup" for Tw installs and "up" for servers. Alright, OK, Oh Great Guru. Here's the question: Yes Bazil

...

I don't run a server but have TW installed on a laptop as I already stated.

I haven't updated TW for some days but a few minutes ago decided to update it.

I ran 'zypper refresh' and then input first 'zypper dup' then 'zypper up' but did not actually run these.

'zypper dup' produced the following output:

182 packages to upgrade 3 packages to downgrade 18 new packages to install 18 packages to be removed 72 packages to change vendor

'zypper up' produced the following output:

65 package updates will not be installed 12 new packages to be installed 116 packages to be upgraded

Dear Guru,

Which should I run, 'zypper dup' or 'zypper up'?

Or should I go back to using Windows? Dear Bazil,

You already have the answer, a personal choice which you control: <quote>

...

...

You can run whatever you wish. Choose what works for your work-flow. [pruned] </quote>

from the docs, up upgrades per ver num but does not change vendor unless config is changed dup upgrades to vendor with greatest ver num

but a greater ver num does not always mean a "later/newer" version between repos

As Paul Harvey once said (or twice or ...) "And now you know the rest of the story."

It remains: Your choice.

Thank you for your most illuminating answer. It is not a coincidence that I addressed my question to The Guru. Doing otherwise would have got me a less enlightening answer. BC -- Using openSUSE 13.2, KDE 4.14.4 & kernel 3.19.1-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX660 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org