On Monday 07 June 2010 06:07:36 Graham Anderson wrote:

On Monday 07 June 2010 09:16:58 Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

Of course, I won't be installing Suse again until it detects other OSes and adds them to the boot loader automatically. I expect any modern Linux distro to do that for me.

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a Grub 1 based system to automatically detect and chainload a Grub 2 based system. Given that development of Grub 1 seems to have slowed or stopped. Sure, it would be nice to detect and configure Grub for all the 400+ Linux distros out there but that will never happen.

If your technically savvy enough to be using multiple operating systems, why can't you simply add a new option to Grub for whatever OS is missing? This takes at most a couple of minutes to configure via yast bootloader tool.

I agree with Dotan, The SuSE installer is broken if it can't detect other distros....and handle the bootloader gymnastics. Your assumption that GRUB1 is doing the detection is wrong, it is the installation bootloader detection and generation system, written I believe in Perl or some such and is not part of GRUB. How is it going to find Win7, Vista, XP, Win3.11, and whatever other forms of Virus OS's MS inflicts upon the world when they "imporve" Win more" if the installer can't even recognize 1 or 2 flavors of Linux OS's? SuSE installer is broken, not GRUB and SuSE should recognize the couple of variations of commonly used GRUB bootloaders not just the "old" one...after all, that is the way KDE was handled when it was "upgraded", wasn't it? I mean, we went through the period of time when KDE4 actually ran KDE3 apps :) I also remember that we owe Dotan a bunch of 'thankyou's' for all the effort he has put in testing (KDE especially) and SuSE is not gaining a good reputation in its' bug-handling attitude. Thankfully, there are still a few "Dotans" around to help compensate for the creeps. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 07 June 2010 07:54:58 you wrote:

On Monday 07 June 2010 13:28:55 Richard Creighton wrote:

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I also remember that we owe Dotan a bunch of 'thankyou's' for all the effort he has put in testing (KDE especially) and SuSE is not gaining a good reputation in its' bug-handling attitude. Thankfully, there are still a few "Dotans" around to help compensate for the creeps.

Dotan is not the only bug reporter, and to be quite frank I find the "fix it or else" attitude to be rather petulant and childish.

Possibly, but your response to him was unnecessary and did not contribute to the solution. Losing even one *good* bug reporter out of the bunch hurts us all and fanning the flames doesn't contribute to a fix, only ensures that more bugs will get through because fewer eyes are looking for them. Petulant and childish or not, his frustration is showing, it doesn't need whipping. Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 07 June 2010 14:12:29 Dotan Cohen wrote:

On 7 June 2010 14:54, Graham Anderson wrote:

...

Dotan is not the only bug reporter, and to be quite frank I find the "fix it or else" attitude to be rather petulant and childish.

You are right, I apologize for wording it that way. My intention was not to convey "fix it or else" but rather to convey "Suse is bringing back Linux installation issues that we have not had to worry about since 1996".

It's not unreasonable to expect that what was working fine in the past would continue to work and if I put myself in your shoes then I may well too experience some frustration. It's been a few years since I had more than just a couple of versions of openSUSE + windows physically installed (so no detection problems for me). For the most part I run other distros I need to test against in virtualisation. So going forward, it looks unlikely the situation will improve for 11.3. Then the question becomes what *exactly* are the technical problems preventing openSUSE from having the detection now, and will these be overcome for future releases? I agree with some posts in other lists and forums that not bolting to GRUB2 just because everyone else is is a good thing but are our detection tool/scripts not being updated because of our continued reliance on GRUB1? (or 0.9 or whatever) Maybe there's already a strategy in place to deal with this but the discussion on grub, bootloading and detection seems to be fragmented across openFate, the forums, BNC and more than one mailing list. Let us also bear one thing in mind. Fedora recently delayed the release of FC13 precisely because of this type of issue. Perhaps openSUSE is not giving this issue the priority or consideration it deserves? I'm not inclined to comment on that personally as I am not one of the parties that is currently affected. Cheers the noo, Graham -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 14:09, Dotan Cohen wrote:

I can read two things between those lines: 1) Suse does detect and configure Grub1-based systems. 2) Assuming that Suse will one day adopt Grub2, it will detect and configure those systems.

If those two points are correct, then resolution of the bug will involve a move to Grub2. I don't see a mention of that explicitly in the related bug report.

Furthermore, Comment #5 of that bug report indicates that Suse does not detect other Grub1-based systems.

If you have a system you can experiment with, you will find that if you install 11.1 on a computer with multiple OSes you will get a Grub with all OSes in the menu. With 11.2 in the same scenario, you do not - which is why I was involved in the bug report back with 11.2 release candidates. At one point openSuSE DID detect other Grub1 based installs, and now it doesn't.

Because I support tens of users and my personal technical savviness means that their problems fall on me! A couple of minutes here and a couple of minutes there means that I get no paid work done.

I'm in the same situation. Any time a change comes down that significantly disrupts things like the GTK vs QT YaST and the polar opposites in how they work, or this issue with Grub no longer setting up multiboot on install, it impacts me in a rather big way with all the extra support effort I have to do as a result.... so you're not alone in your frustration Dotan. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:38, Jozef Uhliarik wrote:

* adding other OSes with GRUB2 is not supported because GRUB2. There you can wait for adding GRUB2 also to openSUSE.

Agreed.. understand etc etc.

* adding other OSes with GRUB1 should be supported but it depends on GRUB configuration in other OSes. if GRUB configuration is totally different (different names of configuration files or different location of options etc.) from SUSE GRUB configuration. it is not added.

So.. that still doesn't tell anyone why.. it used to work.. and now it doesn't. If someone could explain why this stopped working with 11.2.... was something intentionally removed? Just no longer maintained due to lack of developer's or time, and it broke due to changes in Grub1 (a similar scenario to the demise of sax2)? What changed?

* you are right there missing dual-boot configuration in yast2-bootloader.

* nobody block you to add new feature (openFATE) request for adding dual-boot configuration to yast2-bootloader

* next if you have problem with adding other OS (with GRUB1) to bootloader configuration feel free to open new bug and we can start to analyze problem

* also you can feel free to send patch/fix for yast2-bootloader. ;-)

There was a bug opened on this with 11.2RC. :-P C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 07 Jun 2010 15:32:25 Jozef Uhliarik wrote:

On Monday 07 of June 2010 15:59:23 C wrote:

...

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 15:38, Jozef Uhliarik wrote:

There was added stricter checking if found (other) OS (it is not important if it SUSE or not) has valid configuration of bootloader (from SUSE view). The result is that there was solved problem with adding other installation of SUSE (in some cases) but other OSes (non SUSE) with different configuration was filtered out if configuration is not 100% parsed and valid.

So reading into that you are in a round about way saying the suse method is at fault well it's time to fix the suse method to comply with the rest of the world maybe

user is always right... ;-)

It seems so these days very much so Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.2 Milestone 2 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.30-rc6-git3-4- default KDE: 4.2.86 (KDE 4.2.86 (KDE 4.3 >= 20090514)) "release 1" 19:12 up 46 days 6:53, 3 users, load average: 0.88, 0.76, 0.79

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2010-06-07 at 15:38 +0200, Jozef Uhliarik wrote:

On Monday 07 of June 2010 09:16:58 Dotan Cohen wrote:

...

I recently installed Open Suse 11.3 beta (build 0625) on a system with another Linux distro in another partition. Interestingly, Suse gave me no option for configuring dual boot, and the resulting boot menu showed only the Suse partition. I was had to install a custom Grub2 to get back into the other distro. Why doesn't Suse provide this?

...

Simple: * adding other OSes with GRUB2 is not supported because GRUB2. There you can wait for adding GRUB2 also to openSUSE.

* adding other OSes with GRUB1 should be supported but it depends on GRUB configuration in other OSes. if GRUB configuration is totally different (different names of configuration files or different location of options etc.) from SUSE GRUB configuration. it is not added.

* you are right there missing dual-boot configuration in yast2-bootloader.

At least, the installer should detect there is another system installed somewhere, and instead of by default installing in the MBR (wich will, for sure, already be in use), in that situation should at least askt the user before doing that, and offering a number of alternatives, like not touching mbr and installing grub in /boot, with one key. Nowdays we have to manually change a number of options for boot not to be destroyed. My current test machine has windows 7, oS 11.2 and oS 11.3. If I let the installer run its way, boot is destroyed. I'm experienced to know how to twidle the installer to get it done correctly, but it should be easier, and the default should be "don't destroy working boot". If the installed can't decide, then don't decide. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkwNSi4ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WD/ACdEquYC+2D8N9kN6dNmIOYKtct 36cAn30LsnguJdW2bx6Y8cs/GuRa2ktB =Ah6b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org