On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:50:50 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

Hi,

(cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)

Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup. I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.

Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.

Sounds like a good idea. I know that you worked on that stuff.

...

The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires: xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu". This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't do no harm otherwise.

Actually, it is more: --8<--- # zypper in -l in xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies... The following 11 NEW packages are going to be installed: libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-branding-openSUSE libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang libxfce4panel-2_0-4 libxfce4ui-tools openSUSE-xfce-icon-theme xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang xfce4-settings-branding-openSUSE xfce4-splash-branding-openSUSE The following 3 recommended packages were automatically selected: libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang 11 new packages to install. Overall download size: 873.0 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 1.8 MiB will be used. -->8--- which will be added to my already loaded system --8<--- # rpm -qa | wc -l 8082 # zypper se | grep ^i | wc -l 8280 -->8--- Other than that, I see no objections

Can't it be Recommends instead? Then you can add a lock to zypper and it keeps working without complaints.

Other than that, it looks promising, please go ahead.

...

If there are no objections, then I'd submit this soon (first to X11:xfce, then to Factory).

And that brings me to the second point: I'm trying to bring the XFCE Live CDs back. OK, the ISO's are too big for CDs, but work well as DVD or hybridpersistent USB stick.

If you want to try them out *now*, grab them from http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/seife:/xfce/images/iso/

If there are no serious issues reported, I'd submit them to X11:xfce (and then announce the new location).

There are 4 images available:

XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3 XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed

The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.

Opinions?

Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will be so many users of live image nowadays... I don't mean objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

BTW, speaking of XFCE: do we have any openQA tasks for XFCE?

thanks,

Takashi

-- H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.27 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/ http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:14:52 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Hi,

Am 09.10.2017 um 17:59 schrieb H.Merijn Brand:

...

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:50:50 +0200, Takashi Iwai wrote:

...

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

[...]

...

Actually, it is more: --8<--- # zypper in -l in xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...

The following 11 NEW packages are going to be installed: libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-branding-openSUSE libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang libxfce4panel-2_0-4 libxfce4ui-tools openSUSE-xfce-icon-theme xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang xfce4-settings-branding-openSUSE xfce4-splash-branding-openSUSE

Hm, is this a xfce system? On Tumbleweed or on Leap?

TumbleWeed with KDE/Plasma

Because: susi:~ # rpm -e --test libgarcon-1-0 error: Failed dependencies: libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-appfinder-4.12.0-1.8.x86_64 libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-settings-4.12.1-73.10.x86_64 libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-4.12.1-104.14.x86_64 libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) libxfdashboard0-0.7.4-2.4.x86_64 libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-2.1.3-50.1.x86_64 libgarcon-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfdesktop-4.12.4-79.6.x86_64 libgarcon-gtk2-1.so.0()(64bit) is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-4.12.1-104.14.x86_64

so at least with the current stuff accepted to TW with 20171007 you basically cannot go without libgarcon-1-0 anyway. libxfce4panel-2_0-4 is now required by xfce4-panel, so this is also nothing you can avoid by not requiring whiskermenu.

...

The following 3 recommended packages were automatically selected: libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang

11 new packages to install. Overall download size: 873.0 KiB. Already cached: 0 B. After the operation, additional 1.8 MiB will be used. -->8---

which will be added to my already loaded system --8<--- # rpm -qa | wc -l 8082 # zypper se | grep ^i | wc -l 8280 -->8---

I tried it on the xfce-tumbleweed-latest Live CD and it was only 2 packages (whiskermenu and -lang), as the rest was already installed.

Best regards,

Stefan

-- H.Merijn Brand http://tux.nl Perl Monger http://amsterdam.pm.org/ using perl5.00307 .. 5.27 porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/ http://www.test-smoke.org/ http://qa.perl.org http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

On Monday 2017-10-09 17:59, H.Merijn Brand wrote:

...

...

This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't do no harm otherwise.

Actually, it is more: --8<--- # zypper in -l in xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...

The following 11 NEW packages are going to be installed: libgarcon-1-0 libgarcon-branding-openSUSE libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang libxfce4panel-2_0-4 libxfce4ui-tools openSUSE-xfce-icon-theme xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang xfce4-settings-branding-openSUSE xfce4-splash-branding-openSUSE

The following 3 recommended packages were automatically selected: libgarcon-data libgarcon-lang xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu-lang

The garçon pieces are already required/used by xfce, so that's technically nothing _new_: (42.3)> rpm -e libgarcon-data error: Failed dependencies: libgarcon-data is needed by (installed) xfce4-panel-4.12.0-5.2.x86_64 libgarcon-data is needed by (installed) xfdesktop-4.12.4-7.1.x86_64 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 11:50 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will be so many users of live image nowadays... I don't mean objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

I maintain a live image of my own based on Gnome. If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely switch to it as a base. I keep my live image on DVD and thumb. I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is going to be supported, I'd have that option as well. Thanks Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Oct 9, 2017 at 2:01 PM, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Hi Greg,

Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

...

If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely switch to it as a base. I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which will have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for web-searching solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted, whatever tools. I'll try to keep it as small as possible.

...

I keep my live image on DVD and thumb.

I build hybridpersistent isos, which you can put on a DVD or onto an USB stick.

Sounds good

...

I have 2 variants: UEFI and non-UEFI

Actually the UEFI hybrid iso boots just fine on non-EFI systems. The only problem I encountered is, that the UEFI build does not work on i586...

Interesting. I don't think that is true with the appliances I currently get out of Suse Studio. ie. I know sometimes a PC will boot from either of my media, but I'm pretty sure I've had occasions where only the non-UEFI would boot.

...

I don't currently maintain a 32-bit variant, but if Tumbleweed is going to be supported, I'd have that option as well.

... I'd need to find out if I can somehow conditionalize the firmware=uefi on the host arch, or create two distinct packages which differ by only this switch, which would be ugly. Then I'm all for supporting 32bit.

Not hugely important for me. I do have older 13.1 32-bit boot media. In theory I can just use it if I need to work with a 32-bit PC.

Maybe once I'm ready with the rescue image (which might take some time), we can just throw in your forensic tools? So you don't actually need to maintain your own images?

That would be great if reasonable. The main things I use are CLI, not GUI. I currently ensure these are available (maybe not all are critical?): ntfs-3g ntfsprogs hdparm fdisk smartmontools dmidecode sysstat dd_rescue gnu_ddrescue dc3dd libewf-tools iputils I don't know how many MB that would be additional to what is on the rescue disk. fuse-exfat would also be nice. I don't currently have it on mine because I'm not totally clear on the license issues. Thanks Greg

Best regards,

Stefan -- Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman

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Hi Fabian, Am 09.10.2017 um 20:44 schrieb Fabian Vogt:

Recreating? It's still alive and well: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1

It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and seems to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

even better! Some time ago (13.1? 13.2?) The rescue cd got broken and noone fixed it. I had it on my todo list, but if it has been silently repaired, I'm happy, there's enough other work left to do ;-) -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi, Am Dienstag, 10. Oktober 2017, 00:01:17 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

On 2017-10-09 20:44, Fabian Vogt wrote:

...

Hi,

Am Montag, 9. Oktober 2017, 20:01:36 CEST schrieb Stefan Seyfried:

...

Hi Greg,

Am 09.10.2017 um 18:02 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

...

If the XFCE image is available in OBS to branch and supplement with my preferred selection of packages (from OBS), I for one would likely switch to it as a base. I'm actually aiming at recreating the old "rescue image", which will have a very basic XFCE setup, a web browser (for web-searching solutions) and all the filesystems, LVM, gparted, whatever tools. I'll try to keep it as small as possible.

Recreating? It's still alive and well: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/501317#step/xfce4_terminal/1

It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and seems to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

URL, please? I don't see where I can download the rescue live iso.

I'm looking at http://download.opensuse.org/ and I don't see it.

It's at the usual location: http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/iso/?P=*Rescue*.iso It's also linked on the s.o.o page (currently as "unsupported", which doesn't make much sense and will be fixed with the new layout): https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/tumbleweed/unsupported Cheers, Fabian

-- Cheers / Saludos,

Carlos E. R.

(from 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith))

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Hi Fabian, Am 09.10.2017 um 20:44 schrieb Fabian Vogt:

It lives in openSUSE:Factory:Live/livecd-openSUSE (livecd-x11) and seems to fulfill all of the mentioned criteria.

I looked there and your way of building the cds (use "onlyRequired", then explicitly add all packages via package-lists-foo package) is obviously much more clever than my approach (use "plusRecommends", then blacklist stuff). Now the interesting question :-) I'm pretty sure that you don't manually maintain the package-lists-* contents but have some helper tooling that generates them from patterns or such. Would it be possible to share the helper tools? I can of course also just link+project.diff on your packages, but sometimes it might be desirable to build a totally different image. Best regards, Stefan -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hi Takashi, Am 09.10.2017 um 17:50 schrieb Takashi Iwai:

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

Hi,

(cc'ing Takashi, who does not yet know about my plans even though we are co-maintaining X11:xfce ;-)

Now that the XFCE stuff in Factory is somewhat reasonably current, I'd like to propose a change in the default setup. I'd like to switch to the whiskermenu panel plugin (https://gottcode.org/xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin/) as a default start menu.

Existing setups will not be changed, just the default for new users.

Sounds like a good idea. I know that you worked on that stuff.

...

The way this would be achieved would be a change in xfce4-branding-openSUSE package (actually xfce4-panel-branding-openSUSE) to the panel config, and that package then would get a "Requires: xfce4-panel-plugin-whiskermenu". This requires would lead to ~500kB wasted space for people who do not want to use whiskermenu, but that's it, it won't do no harm otherwise.

Can't it be Recommends instead? Then you can add a lock to zypper and it keeps working without complaints.

No, not really. The whiskermenu is listed in /etc/xdg/xfce4/xfconf/xfce-perchannel-xml/xfce4-panel.xml as ... <property name="plugin-1" type="string" value="whiskermenu"/> ...and if it is not present, you'll get no menu at all, because I removed the old menu. We could do crazy hacks with %post-install scripts autogenerating the xfce4-panel.xml, but I'd rather not go for that. It's really just the whiskermenu package being ~350kb wasted space. If someone really wants to avoid that, I'd take submit requests for an alternate branding package ;-) (Or let's just tell them to use *-branding-upstream. This branding stuff is mostly about the defaults users get, after you start configuring the desktop, your own configurations are overriding most of it anyway) And then "Recommends:" won't work because everyone is using "--no-recommends" anyway :-P

Other than that, it looks promising, please go ahead.

...

XFCE-Leap-42.3-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce XFCE-Leap-42.3-stable => XFCE as shipped in Leap 42.3 XFCE-Tumbleweed-latest => XFCE from X11:xfce XFCE-Tumbleweed-stable => XFCE as shipped in Tumbleweed

The latter two should be pretty identical right now, but once I submit the above whiskermenu change to X11:xfce the Tumbleweed-latest variant will get the newer look.

Opinions?

Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will be so many users of live image nowadays... I don't mean objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

I'm also not sure how many users they'll get. But they are handy to e.g. check branding changes (On my machines, everything is heavily customized and so it's sometimes really interesting to check how it looks on an "untouched" installation ;-) The trigger for creating them was actually the Idea of resurrecting the rescue image, which I deem useful. The "desktop test" images were first steps on the way ;)

BTW, speaking of XFCE: do we have any openQA tasks for XFCE?

I have no idea, I know of none ;-) Fortunately, I'm running the X11:xfce code (or even worse: home:seife:xfce) all the time upon Tumbleweed, so I think I'd catch serious failures soon. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Thank You, Stefan, for doing that! Dne pondělí 9. října 2017 20:09:46 CEST, Carlos E. R. napsal(a):

On 2017-10-09 17:50, Takashi Iwai wrote:

...

On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:41:36 +0200, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

Opinions?

Looks interesting, although I'm a sort of skeptical whether there will be so many users of live image nowadays... I don't mean objecting it at all, so I'm happy to see that stuff in OBS.

Two use cases I can think of, fast:

- Test of a new distribution by new users, without installing. - Use as a rescue system in case the installed one fails to run.

Yes! Very useful! BTW, will it be possible to make persistent stick? I use Lubuntu for such tasks, but it has limit to 4 GB of user data (everything is in single file on FAT32).

- Working on a computer that is not yours.

Yep, it goes together with the previous point. -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux https://www.opensuse.org/ https://trapa.cz/

On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 20:20:04 +0200 Stefan Seyfried wrote:

Well, you can package it and submit it to the devel projects.

Ah. That falls outside my current level of technical skill. If anyone in the Prague office would like to volunteer to come and show me how to do that, I would be delighted to learn.

*I* am probably not going to touch either python nor vala with a 10ft pole unless forced to ;-)

I did not know that either technology was involved, TBH. But it could be worse... it could be Perl or PHP... -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org