[opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-packaging] is ghostscript able to be updated to 8.70 was GPL v3 question
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 07:17:17AM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 01/16/2010 03:48 PM, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 03:33:28PM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 02:20:13PM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
Hi, I've come across my first license problem with ghostscript-8.70, it has switched to GPL v3. There are a lot of packages that depend on ghostscript, lilypond being one and apparently TeXLive sub packages. How are problems like this resolved. Having an old ghostscript version isn't good for attracting people to the distro. I'm totally in the dark about these things but as a packager I need to know about them.
As long as the program calls "gs" via system it is just use and does not impose license requirements the calling programs.
Most of those programs do it that way.
I am not aware that ghostscript exposes libraries?
I am not aware that ghostscript exposes libraries?
Yes, it does -lgs and -lijs, package ghostscript-library
The above is added for the factory list
This post follows :-
I have a complete gs-8.70 package waiting to be submitted but what happens in a case like this? Is ghostscript doomed to packman or even worse out of linux altogether or is there a way of sorting this issue out. Fedora already has gs-8.70, maybe they overlooked the fact that the license had changed. It would take a few linux distros to make the ghostscript people change back to v2. List of affected files, I can find :- Uses gs_lib : capi4hylafax, hylafax
Those will just call the binary, so it is "use".
Uses pstoraster : gutenprint
same.
Uses libgs.so : foomatic-filters, libspectre1 Uses libijs.so: gutenprint
foomatic-filters is GPLv2 or later (so I think it can use GPLv3 libraries). libspectre same. gutenprint same.
I will try to find a verbal statement from our license guys next week, but to my not so trained eyes it looks fine to do.
Ciao, Marcus
I've done some research and gnu.org has a chart which states that GPLv2 only, take note they specify only so I'm not sure if the license needs to state only, is incompatible with any GPLv3 or LGPLv3 license. Libspectre is fine because it has a statement in it's README that says "GPLv2 or later" which is compatible. Foomatic-filters on the other hand doesn't state anything other than "copyright (C) 1994, 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc." and has a copy of GPLv2, so whether this implies later or only is something for the legal department. Looking at the chart GPLv2 only isn't 100% compatible with any other license. Foomatic-filters cannot exist without libgs so if there is a problem they need to address it. Regards Dave P
The sources of foomatic-filters have a copy of COPYING as only indication of its license. This COPYING file suggests "GPL v2 or later" and as the individual sources files do not have copyright headers this mentioning applies. The author should put COPYING headers as suggested in his .c and .h files of course. foomatic-filters has: License: GPL v2 or later in its RPM header. This also matches the internal license scan results. I talked to our license guys and for "GPL v2 or later" using gs in GPL v3 mode is fine. If those in turn provide libraries, they are however GPL v3 after compilation. So foomatic-filters is fine to use with the libgs library. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 01/18/2010 05:26 PM, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 07:17:17AM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On 01/16/2010 03:48 PM, Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 03:33:28PM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 02:20:13PM +0200, Dave Plater wrote:
Hi, I've come across my first license problem with ghostscript-8.70, it has switched to GPL v3. There are a lot of packages that depend on ghostscript, lilypond being one and apparently TeXLive sub packages. How are problems like this resolved. Having an old ghostscript version isn't good for attracting people to the distro. I'm totally in the dark about these things but as a packager I need to know about them.
As long as the program calls "gs" via system it is just use and does not impose license requirements the calling programs.
Most of those programs do it that way.
I am not aware that ghostscript exposes libraries?
I am not aware that ghostscript exposes libraries?
Yes, it does -lgs and -lijs, package ghostscript-library
The above is added for the factory list
This post follows :-
I have a complete gs-8.70 package waiting to be submitted but what happens in a case like this? Is ghostscript doomed to packman or even worse out of linux altogether or is there a way of sorting this issue out. Fedora already has gs-8.70, maybe they overlooked the fact that the license had changed. It would take a few linux distros to make the ghostscript people change back to v2. List of affected files, I can find :- Uses gs_lib : capi4hylafax, hylafax
Those will just call the binary, so it is "use".
Uses pstoraster : gutenprint
same.
Uses libgs.so : foomatic-filters, libspectre1 Uses libijs.so: gutenprint
foomatic-filters is GPLv2 or later (so I think it can use GPLv3 libraries). libspectre same. gutenprint same.
I will try to find a verbal statement from our license guys next week, but to my not so trained eyes it looks fine to do.
Ciao, Marcus
I've done some research and gnu.org has a chart which states that GPLv2 only, take note they specify only so I'm not sure if the license needs to state only, is incompatible with any GPLv3 or LGPLv3 license. Libspectre is fine because it has a statement in it's README that says "GPLv2 or later" which is compatible. Foomatic-filters on the other hand doesn't state anything other than "copyright (C) 1994, 1995, 1996, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005 Free Software Foundation, Inc." and has a copy of GPLv2, so whether this implies later or only is something for the legal department. Looking at the chart GPLv2 only isn't 100% compatible with any other license. Foomatic-filters cannot exist without libgs so if there is a problem they need to address it. Regards Dave P
The sources of foomatic-filters have a copy of COPYING as only indication of its license. This COPYING file suggests "GPL v2 or later" and as the individual sources files do not have copyright headers this mentioning applies. The author should put COPYING headers as suggested in his .c and .h files of course.
foomatic-filters has: License: GPL v2 or later
in its RPM header. This also matches the internal license scan results.
I talked to our license guys and for "GPL v2 or later" using gs in GPL v3 mode is fine. If those in turn provide libraries, they are however GPL v3 after compilation.
So foomatic-filters is fine to use with the libgs library.
Ciao, Marcus
There's one aspect of ghostscript-8.70 that I don't quite know what to put in the License: part ghostscript-omni is built from Omni which is LGPLv2.1 or later. The gnu chart states that one is allowed to convert LGPLv2.1 or later into GPLv3 and from that I would understand that either all references to LGPLv2.1 must be removed or it's alright to simply put the licence in as GNUv3. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
The sources of foomatic-filters have a copy of COPYING as only indication of its license. This COPYING file suggests "GPL v2 or later" and as the individual sources files do not have copyright headers this mentioning applies. The author should put COPYING headers as suggested in his .c and .h files of course.
foomatic-filters has: License: GPL v2 or later
in its RPM header. This also matches the internal license scan results.
I talked to our license guys and for "GPL v2 or later" using gs in GPL v3 mode is fine. If those in turn provide libraries, they are however GPL v3 after compilation.
So foomatic-filters is fine to use with the libgs library.
Ciao, Marcus
There's one aspect of ghostscript-8.70 that I don't quite know what to put in the License: part ghostscript-omni is built from Omni which is LGPLv2.1 or later. The gnu chart states that one is allowed to convert LGPLv2.1 or later into GPLv3 and from that I would understand that either all references to LGPLv2.1 must be removed or it's alright to simply put the licence in as GNUv3.
The built binary package would be under GPLv3 or later license then, yes (and no longer under GPLv2 or later). If in turn this would provide libraries the dependend packages would also turn into that. Please do not think so much about licenses, it will just make your head explode if not carefully studied over the years ;) Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Jan 18, 10 17:17:08 +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:
There's one aspect of ghostscript-8.70 that I don't quite know what to put in the License: part ghostscript-omni is built from Omni which is LGPLv2.1 or later. The gnu chart states that one is allowed to convert LGPLv2.1 or later into GPLv3 and from that I would understand that either all references to LGPLv2.1 must be removed or it's alright to simply put the licence in as GNUv3.
We dont do it like that, we always keep the original license as is. Where and how a conversion is needed is always left as an exercise to the end user, so that the entire construct remains visible. I believe, that editing a license (even where technically correct) causes more confustion than good.
Please do not think so much about licenses, it will just make your head explode if not carefully studied over the years ;)
Right. But questions are always welcome. I'll reassign carefully in my team so that those exposions dont hit important people :-) cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dave Plater
There's one aspect of ghostscript-8.70 that I don't quite know what to put in the License: part ghostscript-omni is built from Omni which is LGPLv2.1 or later. The gnu chart states that one is allowed to convert LGPLv2.1 or later into GPLv3 and from that I would understand that either all references to LGPLv2.1 must be removed or it's alright to simply put the licence in as GNUv3.
The LGPL is very obvious with claiming that such a change is unrevocable for the master copy of a distributor. So if a distributor _really_ makes such a change, it cannot ship at the same time any software that needs the library under LGPL. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Jan 19, 10 11:51:45 +0100, Joerg Schilling wrote:
Dave Plater
wrote: There's one aspect of ghostscript-8.70 that I don't quite know what to put in the License: part ghostscript-omni is built from Omni which is LGPLv2.1 or later. The gnu chart states that one is allowed to convert LGPLv2.1 or later into GPLv3 and from that I would understand that either all references to LGPLv2.1 must be removed or it's alright to simply put the licence in as GNUv3.
The LGPL is very obvious with claiming that such a change is unrevocable for the master copy of a distributor. So if a distributor _really_ makes such a change, it cannot ship at the same time any software that needs the library under LGPL.
I don't follow down that road. We don't need to have the concept of a master copy. A distributor can have identical copies of code in different packages with different license tags on it. Not very helpful, but perfectly legal. And: Whatever a packager says about the license, may not even be be the ultimate truth from an end-users perspective. Packager cannot revoke end-users rights either. cheers, JW- -- o \ Juergen Weigert paint it green! __/ _=======.=======_ <V> | jw@suse.de back to ascii! __/ _---|____________\/ \ | 0911 74053-508 __/ (____/ /\ (/) | _____________________________/ _/ \_ vim:set sw=2 wm=8 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Juergen Weigert
The LGPL is very obvious with claiming that such a change is unrevocable for the master copy of a distributor. So if a distributor _really_ makes such a change, it cannot ship at the same time any software that needs the library under LGPL.
I don't follow down that road. We don't need to have the concept of a master copy. A distributor can have identical copies of code in different packages with different license tags on it. Not very helpful, but perfectly legal.
If you try to go this path, you would need to have the same lib twice on your system and clearly mark which one uses which license. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Dave Plater
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Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de
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Juergen Weigert
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Marcus Meissner