On 2023-02-12 12:11, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Sun, Feb 12, 2023 at 6:07 AM Luna Jernberg wrote:

...

There will never be a 16 release, next release is 15.5

We don't know that yet. And in any case, the install DVD is supposed to include basic development packages for offline install. You do have to select it to be installed during the installation process in YaST though.

I can confirm that the openSUSE-Leap-15.4-DVD-x86_64-Build243.2-Media.iso does not contain any gcc* file. Nor does openSUSE-Leap-15.3-2-DVD-x86_64-Build24.5-Media.iso, openSUSE-Leap-15.2-DVD-x86_64.iso, openSUSE-Leap-15.1-DVD-x86_64.iso or openSUSE-Leap-15.0-DVD-x86_64.iso. I can see openSUSE-Leap-42.2-DVD-x86_64.iso/iso9660://suse/x86_64/gcc-4.8-9.61.x86_64.rpm and other files. Meanwhile, as there are no plans for a traditional distribution after Leap, I am considering what to migrate to. Maybe Ubuntu. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2023-02-12 13:24, Pablo Sanchez wrote:

On 2023-02-12 07:10, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Meanwhile, as there are no plans for a traditional distribution after Leap, I am considering what to migrate to. Maybe Ubuntu.

Hi Carlos,

I don't have a horse in this race.  I'm simply curious what are the Use Cases why something like *MicroOS* with *distrobox*[1] won't work for you?

If you are unfamiliar, *distrobox *makes it dead-easy to set up containerized distributions of your choice.  Along with it, if you want to commingle different DE's applications, you can.

I do not want a containerized distribution. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2/12/23 05:44, Larry Len Rainey wrote:

Since few if any new machines have CD/DVD's anymore - why worry about the size.

Everyone put the ISO image on a USB Thumb Drive and installs from the USB drive - much faster than a DVD.

USB Thumb Drives now are all 16gb or larger - starting for the price of 5 DVD's.

Every PC since 1998 has USB ports (Microsoft added USB with Windows 98).

My 2 cents.

But there are some environments in governments and big businesses where USB thumb drives are not allowed for security reasons.  An employee using a thumb drive will earn a security violation, if caught. I don't agree with the policy myself, but it is what it is and stubborn bureaucrats will not be swayed.  I don't know what the answer is, but I do remember when SuSE was delivered on multiple CD's. As a thought experiment, would it be possible to put a large ISO image onto a SATA SSD, then boot off of it with a SATA/USB converter? I think this might dodge Mordac, The Preventer of Information. Regards, Lew

On 2/12/23 07:23, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

On 12.02.2023 18:19, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

...

On 2/12/23 05:44, Larry Len Rainey wrote:

...

Since few if any new machines have CD/DVD's anymore - why worry about the size.

Everyone put the ISO image on a USB Thumb Drive and installs from the USB drive - much faster than a DVD.

USB Thumb Drives now are all 16gb or larger - starting for the price of 5 DVD's.

Every PC since 1998 has USB ports (Microsoft added USB with Windows 98).

My 2 cents.

But there are some environments in governments and big businesses where USB thumb drives are not allowed for security reasons.  An employee using a thumb drive will earn a security violation, if caught.

In such environment it is very unlikely that employees will be allowed installing anything even using optical media.

True, but there are many shades of gray here and some restrictive environments do allow diversity under certain conditions.  It's recognized that Windows is not the universal IT solution, especially in research oriented places. But there are still irrational hot-button issues, and thumb drives are one of them. PXE installs, as Larry suggests, may work in many contexts, but there are situations where installs must be made on stand-alone systems. There are lots of use cases out there. All that being said, the advantages of large ISO's will drive clever admins to adapt.  I'll make it work, not that I'm "clever" of course! Regards, Lew

On 2023-02-12 16:19, Lew Wolfgang wrote:

On 2/12/23 05:44, Larry Len Rainey wrote:

...

Since few if any new machines have CD/DVD's anymore - why worry about the size.

Everyone put the ISO image on a USB Thumb Drive and installs from the USB drive - much faster than a DVD.

USB Thumb Drives now are all 16gb or larger - starting for the price of 5 DVD's.

Every PC since 1998 has USB ports (Microsoft added USB with Windows 98).

My 2 cents.

But there are some environments in governments and big businesses where USB thumb drives are not allowed for security reasons.  An employee using a thumb drive will earn a security violation, if caught.

I don't agree with the policy myself, but it is what it is and stubborn bureaucrats will not be swayed.  I don't know what the answer is, but I do remember when SuSE was delivered on multiple CD's.

As a thought experiment, would it be possible to put a large ISO image onto a SATA SSD, then boot off of it with a SATA/USB converter? I think this might dodge Mordac, The Preventer of Information.

Yes, technically it should work. Are backup external hard disks, 2.5 inch form factor, USB3, allowed in those places? Those are bootable. Or caddies, connected via USB2/3 when you plug any standard hard disk upside down. I have booted from those, too. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2/13/23 00:14, Larry Len Rainey wrote:

Since few if any new machines have CD/DVD's anymore - why worry about the size.

Everyone put the ISO image on a USB Thumb Drive and installs from the USB drive - much faster than a DVD.

USB Thumb Drives now are all 16gb or larger - starting for the price of 5 DVD's.

Every PC since 1998 has USB ports (Microsoft added USB with Windows 98).

We still have alot of users who don't have access to cheap high speed internet so that's one thing to consider. We could build a 20Gb image but would anyone actually use it? So we probably need to draw a line somewhere. Where that is I don't know personally I don't use much of the dvd so I just use the net installer. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On Sun, 2023-02-12 at 07:44 -0600, Larry Len Rainey wrote:

Since few if any new machines have CD/DVD's anymore - why worry about the size. Everyone put the ISO image on a USB Thumb Drive and installs from the USB drive - much faster than a DVD. USB Thumb Drives now are all 16gb or larger - starting for the price of 5 DVD's. Every PC since 1998 has USB ports (Microsoft added USB with Windows 98). My 2 cents.

What about download bandwidth? I, for one, appreciate the fact that the Leap DVD is "only" about 4GB in size. A huge media containing everything wouldn't suit my needs. TBH, I find the OP's expectation (Linux == out-of-the-box environment for C development) rather out of the ordinary.  Maybe we should consider adding another DVD with auxiliary packages. Martin

On 2023-02-12 19:23, Joe Salmeri wrote:

Hi Carlos,

Why don't you switch to tumbleweed?

Generally it has been quite stable for me.

Because I don't want to do updates that frequently. Updates that can "break" this or that, needing me to use time configuring something that has changed, instead of using time just using the computer. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2023-02-13 05:54, Joe Salmeri wrote:

Hi Carlos,

You can update TW at your own frequency. I have some systems I only update once a month.

Even that is way too much. My preference is for what we had previous to Leap: basically a snapshot taken of factory, which for about a year doesn't get version updates, only security or bug patches. Leap is not it, but is what I get. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2023-02-12 19:55, Thorsten Kukuk wrote:

On Sun, Feb 12, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Meanwhile, as there are no plans for a traditional distribution after Leap, I am considering what to migrate to. Maybe Ubuntu.

Beside that there is Tumbleweed as traditional distribution:

1. ALP, the successor of SLE15, is a platform, not a product, like SLE15, which is a platform, not a product. The products are SLES, SLED, SLE Micro, ...

...

4. Since ALP is a platform: nobody prevents you to find some other community members to build an openSUSE Leap 16 out of it.

...

That there are no plans for an "openSUSE Leap 16" today only means: the one who would normally do it don't need it, and the others prefer to complain instead of getting active. But a community project only works if people get active themself.

I am active. I'm just incapable of building packages or a distro. That's a skill I do not have. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

On 2/13/23 05:25, Thorsten Kukuk wrote:

On Sun, Feb 12, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Meanwhile, as there are no plans for a traditional distribution after Leap, I am considering what to migrate to. Maybe Ubuntu.

Beside that there is Tumbleweed as traditional distribution:

1. ALP, the successor of SLE15, is a platform, not a product, like SLE15, which is a platform, not a product. The products are SLES, SLED, SLE Micro, ... 2. It is correct that the first product build out of ALP will be a container Host OS. But that's only the first product, and why should somebody create a platform to only build one product out of it? 3. There are for sure workloads, which you cannot containerize. Would be stupid to give all this money to our competitiors. 4. Since ALP is a platform: nobody prevents you to find some other community members to build an openSUSE Leap 16 out of it. 5. But it is correct that there will be no "SLES16" like SLES15 today, whith a 5 digit number of packages, from which a 4 digit number of packages only compiles, but don't work and isn't used by anybody. The 4 digit number is a projection based on the number of packages we used for one product last year and the number of packages we found which don't work and couldn't work since many years, partly even over a dekade, with that.

I expect that something small, which you can use as "traditional" server OS for "traditional" workloads, will come as second or third or fourth product based on ALP.

So go ahead, take this, add the KDE and/or GNOME Desktop to it as done with openSUSE Leap 15.x, and you have your "openSUSE Leap 16.x". And if you miss more packages, take them from Tumbleweed. In this case it's at least for sure that they will work if somebody is really using them.

I basically did this with my hackweek project, see the thread from the other day. I also intend to do something like this because I need it for atleast one of my systems, if it is just me and a couple of other people I expect that the package set will still be pretty limited but if many people find it useful (And or we can use sources being used to build ALP containers) it might start to get closer to being comparable with Leap 15's package set. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B

On Sunday 2023-02-12 12:07, Luna Jernberg wrote:

There will never be a 16 release, next release is 15.5

Never say never.