[opensuse-factory] Python 3.5 plan
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2? Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. -- SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/28/2015 01:15 PM, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
Maybe we could discuss it with TheBlackCat on the packaging list. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho. Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3. Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit? Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:44 +0200, Benjamin Denisart wrote:
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions.
That's a different topic - forcing the maintenance for both versions is not mandated.. changing the symlink of /usr/bin/python is a no-go in my opinion. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Benjamin Denisart
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique
Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions.
Wasn't the spec file unification plan supposed to solve that problem? What happened to that? The lack of single-spec-file support is also holding us back from supporting popular alternative Python implementations like Pypy, which is infeasible if we need a separate spec file per python version. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:44 +0200, Benjamin Denisart wrote:
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions.
Because we have different packages for py2 and py3. It's just ducplicate work and afaik no other distro is doing it that way. Cheers, Tom -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/29/2015 11:32 AM, Thomas Bechtold wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:44 +0200, Benjamin Denisart wrote:
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions. Because we have different packages for py2 and py3. It's just ducplicate work and afaik no other distro is doing it that way.
Cheers, Tom
Indeed. We were supposed to unify the spec files but hey ! What happened to that ? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 29.9.2015 11:37, Benjamin Denisart wrote:
On 09/29/2015 11:32 AM, Thomas Bechtold wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:44 +0200, Benjamin Denisart wrote:
On 09/28/2015 01:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
Dominique Well, it's becoming really hard to maintain packages for both versions. Because we have different packages for py2 and py3. It's just ducplicate work and afaik no other distro is doing it that way.
Cheers, Tom
Indeed. We were supposed to unify the spec files but hey ! What happened to that ?
nobody worked on it is what happened.... i got swamped with other stuff, now i'm slowly getting back to this. anyone with any concrete ideas for implementation, please join me in opensuse-packaging to discuss that, or revive the old thread. in the meantime, several concrete ideas on how to accomplish this have popped up, including the very popular Ruby counterpart (where specs for different ruby versions are auto-generated from a config file) regards m. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
I think there are two different issues that sometimes get conflated. One is changing what python version the base "python" executable is linked to. The other is which python version is installed by default. We can set it so only python 3 is installed by default even without changing what the "python" executable is linked to. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday, September 28, 2015 01:42:19 PM Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
I was aware of ArchLinux doing the movement some time ago [1], but well lets wait until PEP394 [2] updates. Maybe in 2020 : (( [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Python [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ -- SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 09/28/2015 01:54 PM, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 01:42:19 PM Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho. I was aware of ArchLinux doing the movement some time ago [1], but well lets wait until PEP394 [2] updates. Maybe in 2020 : ((
[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Python [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
Personally, I disagree to changing default link. But yep, I wonder what's append to unification process too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 13:59:41 +0200
Benjamin Denisart
On 09/28/2015 01:54 PM, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 01:42:19 PM Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch? Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote: python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work. I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho. I was aware of ArchLinux doing the movement some time ago [1], but well lets wait until PEP394 [2] updates. Maybe in 2020 : ((
[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Python [1] https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/
Personally, I disagree to changing default link. But yep, I wonder what's append to unification process too.
People able to the job are probably just overloaded with other work with higher priority. - -- Jan Matějka | QA Engineer for Maintenance SUSE LINUX s.r.o. | https://www.suse.com/ GPG: A33E F5BC A9F6 DAFD 2021 6FB6 3EBF D45B EEB6 CA8B -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJWCnTkAAoJEIN+7RD5ejah5CEH/jwNoipkoV4Fx1KbiCCR/aPr NZ4gQzZLujq+yAa7Xqe3e7Sap2eXvU+b2QpytbQYpC0yZEkuD84+T+gygjRO37pm mkge7nswDLqc0vr9Cby3in7O9Dbw+YKPTS8YWNcHKZRwYGccG7HxWuxhHM4FaHH7 CVDQFqFOPlDsx2alWeXNB+N/9FexIewCJnX5lnvKBGiSCcSz0mGn362Zf6gkyrkH SLvMNWXXgagOtog1kqZ8xguNwEtG3aq7W1XVtgAWuVM0SgIcjH984jLk/XqoBGSl Wu6//e3WlW1dyZgVHNaTt668h0FO02q3ryp15iwrj9B85uYrzFklWcmapAtBOOY= =Od+z -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
"Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar"
On Mon, 2015-09-28 at 13:15 +0200, Alberto Planas wrote:
On Monday, September 28, 2015 12:28:09 PM Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
Maybe making `python` pointing to python3 by default, instead of python2?
Only this will break a lot of stuff, so will require considerable work.
I don't think we should be heading down that route... it's breakage for no valid reason imho.
Most upstream projects expect in their shebang that /usr/bin/python = python2 and /usr/bin/python3 = python3.
Breaking that expectation means we get dozens of broken packages. What would be the benefit?
I'm against it if nothing else because I develop a python2 program which is not yet ported to python3, so it'd mean extra work for me. I'm lazy! On the other hand, maybe it would push me to finally port to python3. It would be nice to have some new features to play with... But more seriously, PEP-0394 is against it:
From https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0394/ * python2 will refer to some version of Python 2.x.
* python3 will refer to some version of Python 3.x.
* for the time being, all distributions should ensure that python refers to the same target as python2 .
Cheers, Kristoffer
Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- // Kristoffer Grönlund // kgronlund@suse.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28.9.2015 12:28, Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
I'm now submitting python 3.5.0 as a regular update for `python3` package into Factory. There's a ton of new features and negligible amount of backwards-incompatible problems. One major thing that we will probably run into is the fact that python 3.5 drops the .pyo extension in favor of "opt-1" and "opt-2" suffixes to .pyc bytecode files. This might break filelists in some packages. Other than that, however, there shouldn't be more problems than usual. Python 2, aka the `python` package, remains as it is. For the record, there are currently no concrete plans about switching `python` to Python 3. m. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/02/2015 10:04 AM, jan matejek wrote:
On 28.9.2015 12:28, Todd Rme wrote:
Python 3.5 final has been released. Does anyone have any thoughts about when and how openSUSE:Factory should make the switch?
I'm now submitting python 3.5.0 as a regular update for `python3` package into Factory.
There's a ton of new features and negligible amount of backwards-incompatible problems. One major thing that we will probably run into is the fact that python 3.5 drops the .pyo extension in favor of "opt-1" and "opt-2" suffixes to .pyc bytecode files. This might break filelists in some packages. Other than that, however, there shouldn't be more problems than usual.
Python 2, aka the `python` package, remains as it is. For the record, there are currently no concrete plans about switching `python` to Python 3.
At some point we might want to follow suit, Debian is/has switched to python 3 as default and Fedora is switching in Fedora 23, and to version 3.5 in Fedora 24. And yes it will be a ton of work. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo
participants (9)
-
Alberto Planas -
Benjamin Denisart -
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar -
jan matejek -
Jan Matejka -
Kristoffer Grönlund -
Robert Schweikert -
Thomas Bechtold -
Todd Rme