There is a way to change this. In gconf : /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item

I think here's an important point and it affects the Favourite Applications section too. Bizarrely, it never occurred to me that that might be GConf controlled (turns out to be under /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/file-area) and I'm an uber-1337 GNOME-master (ahem). It looked like these were Novell's favourite apps. If gnome-main-menu is going to be seriously usable (especially if it's accepted into upstream), there needs to be an obvious way (perhaps a 'Choose Favourite Applications' button next to the 'More Applications' one) of editing this list. The 'More Applications' list is another important thing to look at. At the moment, it launches the application browser which, frankly, is rubbish. It would make a lot more sense if pressing this button simply opened the Applications menu, as a menu. -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Instead of right clicking an application and choose "Add to favorites"?

That involves opening the application browser, you can't do it currently from the Apps menu. Would help if this could be patched to interoperate better.

I sort of like the way it is now. But I have changed it not to close the application browser when I open an application (also a gconf key). That is the way I use it. I don't want that to be the default setting. I know I work with some stuff in a different way than others.

Is that because you'd choose to work like that or because, having been given the browser, you've adapted? What do other people think about this? I just want to be clear, on the whole I think the new main menu is pretty good, it just has some little niggles. -- James Ogley james@usr-local-bin.org http://usr-local-bin.org Packages for SUSE: http://usr-local-bin.org/rpms Help end poverty: http://oxfam.org.uk/imin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, 2006-11-05 at 15:34 +0000, James Ogley wrote:

...

There is a way to change this. In gconf : /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item

I think here's an important point and it affects the Favourite Applications section too. Bizarrely, it never occurred to me that that might be GConf controlled (turns out to be under /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/file-area) and I'm an uber-1337 GNOME-master (ahem). It looked like these were Novell's favourite apps.

If gnome-main-menu is going to be seriously usable (especially if it's accepted into upstream), there needs to be an obvious way (perhaps a 'Choose Favourite Applications' button next to the 'More Applications' one) of editing this list.

We were concerned about this, however in our user testing right click and drag and drop were found and used.

The 'More Applications' list is another important thing to look at. At the moment, it launches the application browser which, frankly, is rubbish. It would make a lot more sense if pressing this button simply opened the Applications menu, as a menu.

User testing did not show this to be rubbish actually. The speed at which it opens is an issue. User testing did show that hierarchical menus are awful for most users since they don't know where to look. There is an enhancement idea to make More Applications do more of a traditional menu as an *option* for users who do know what they are doing with a hierarchical menu however. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 11/5/06, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

"Claes Bäckström" writes:

...

Hi

I would like that when I choose "install software" in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer.

Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla?

This might be possible already today with some gconf action. JP, do you know what needs to be done? If this is the case, let's document it on the wiki,

Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me it's a deeper question. What is the "supported" way to install software in openSUSE? That is what we should show the users primary. And if the recommended way is to use zen-installer then it should stay but if not we should change it. So far no one have stepped up and said no to change this. So do that mean that everyone thinks we should change this? Warm Regards, Claes Backstrom

On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote:

Claes Bäckström schrieb:

...

Yes it's possible to do in gconf. So it's simple to change. But for me it's a deeper question. What is the "supported" way to install software in openSUSE?

YaST2 sw_single and Zen-Installer are equally supported. (Well, if you ask me, shipping two tools that do basically the same thing in fundamentally different ways isn't the smartest thing to do in the first place, but that's just a personal opinion.)

Don't forget opensuse-installer (like zmd-installer except it uses libzypp directly instead of zmd)

This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer.

This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 05 November 2006 18:21, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 13:53 schrieb Anders Johansson:

...

On Sunday 05 November 2006 13:48, Andreas Hanke wrote:

[...]

...

...

This is not so simple to decide. Zen-Installer supports the zmd permissions system so that people can use it without the root password on configured systems. This is a plus of Zen-Installer.

This is something that should be added to opensuse-installer.

NooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOO!

I consider the ZMD permission system broken by design (https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=215619) and it would be fatal to add the same broken thing to opensuse-installer/updater.

If you _really_ like the zmd permission system, please continue using zen-installer ;-)

I like the fact that root can delegate some administrative tasks like software management to other administrators without their having to get the root password That bug report is slightly strange, since it seems to say "if root does everything, the system is safe" but role based administration has long been deemed better by many If I, a hypothetical malicious hacker, gain access to your account, and you do stuff with sudo or su, you're already lost, since if I'm logged in to your account, I can sniff your keyboard No security system is perfect, and if a cracker gains local access, you are in trouble. But if you can't trust the people you assign as admins, you have bigger problems than computer security --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sunday 05 November 2006 18:50, Marcus Meissner wrote:

Actually I would really delegate this to su wrappers, like sudo or kdesu instead of introducing yet another security model.

Ideally it should be a capability (the capability system in linux really should be expanded - and used more) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Sonntag, 5. November 2006 19:21 schrieb Klaus Kaempf: [...]

Wouldn't it be nice to have a single, secure, system-wide mechanism to provide access control ? Future versions of the package & patch management hopefully can make use of such a system.

Sounds much better ;-) (I also like Marcus' idea about using sudo and/or kdesu.) For the records: I'd like to have the following permission levels in the package management: a) check for updates ("suse-watcher" style) b) install updates (including uninstalling obsolete and installing new requirements from existing installation sources) c) install / remove any package from existing installation sources The problem with zen-updater is that it currently needs b) and c), therefore people can easily add and remove other packages with zen-installer/-remover even if the admin isn't aware of this. Regards, Christian Boltz -- Wer News über ein Webinterface liest, filmt auch die Tageszeitung, um sie auf dem Fernseher anzuschauen. [Henning Schlottmann] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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On Sun, 2006-11-05 at 00:29 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

"Claes Bäckström" writes:

...

Hi

I would like that when I choose "install software" in gnome-main-menu it will start yast2 sw_single instead of zen-installer.

Should I file a enhancement bug in bugzilla?

This might be possible already today with some gconf action. JP, do you know what needs to be done? If this is the case, let's document it on the wiki,

As noted in another thread, you simply have to alter the following gconf keys: /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/system-area/package_manager_item (the system section item) /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/uninstall_package_command /desktop/gnome/applications/main-menu/upgrade_package_command (the right click options) We are working on a way to make the system area more easily configurable since that has been a frequent request, but that won't be in 10.2. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org