[opensuse-factory] opensuse discontinuing rpmbuild ??
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'? When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Linda Walsh escribió:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...?
Since the introduction of the openSUSE buildservice we recommend people to use osc build (that uses build.rpm) rpmbuild is still available but it is not recommended. -- "Progress is possible only if we train ourselves to think about programs without thinking of them as pieces of executable code.” - Edsger W. Dijkstra Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
* Cristian Rodríguez [2008-05-26 21:29]:
Linda Walsh escribió:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...?
Since the introduction of the openSUSE buildservice we recommend people to use osc build (that uses build.rpm)
But that still requires that you create a project at the server, doesn't it? What is if you just want to rebuild the package locally? Yes, 'osc build' is fine, but AFAIK it requires that you have created a new project/package at the server (well, you don't have to upload sources, but still ...). Bernhard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Since the introduction of the openSUSE buildservice we recommend people to use osc build (that uses build.rpm)
rpmbuild is still available but it is not recommended.
Perhaps I'm confusing the question by the venue in which I am asking. If someone has installed OS, but is not working on developing the next OS release, and wants to apply a local patch -- not for public consumption, but for testing, then the solution is to use the OS build server? Is it the intent that an OS build account (or access to one) will come with every installed distribution? At the very least, doesn't this cramp those who are not on a high speed connection to the internet -- not to mention those who may be doing development while not connected to the internet? For years, my linux-development machine was a Dell laptop (which has gone to the great laptop place in the afterlife (well, actually still sitting in my garage for possible cannibalization and because I haven't "buried" its body yet...)) -- I had all of my needed work and sources installed on it (think ~1998-2000 timeframe). 1GHz-P-IIIx512MB, 60GBx7200RPM drive, 32MB graphics w/1600x1200 display --- nothing by today's standards, but respectable in its day even against desktop machines. I used it for linux kernel and linux-distribution management/creation in one project and traveled giving presentations (Powerpoint) for another. I'd be using time in hotels & on flights to be working on my projects. Machine was dualboot, Linux and Win98SE, defaulting into linux. Win98 was also dual bootable -- either under VMWare or native. VMWare was suitable for most of my Windows needs, running most desktop software I needed for my presentation work just fine). So would build ... modern laptops...aren't ~200GB the top end for 7200RPM disks now? maybe a 2GHz Dual-Core...2GB memory -- be the choice for compiling an RPM now? If you were running a MAC-Book "Air" and Parallels to run OSuse -- and I wanted to patch and rebuild 1 RPM, that I already have the sources installed for -- the suggested solution is to find a 'Hot-Spot', so I can connect to build my rpm? Even locally, Is anyone suggesting that 'build' be used to rebuild an rpm's in that fashion? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Linda Walsh escribió:
Perhaps I'm confusing the question by the venue in which I am asking. If someone has installed OS, but is not working on developing the next OS release, and wants to apply a local patch -- not for public consumption, but for testing, then the solution is to use the OS build server?
you want to use "build" in that case, however if you are applying a "local patch" there must be a reason why you are doing that, let us to know the reason and then we can figure why the original package is not suitable for you, and improve it.
Is it the intent that an OS build account (or access to one) will come with every installed distribution?
You can request an account whenever you like.
At the very least, doesn't this cramp those who are not on a high speed connection to the internet --
not to mention those who may be doing
development while not connected to the internet?
"build" will setup the chroot using a package set available in your harddisk, it is not mandatory to access the internet. -- "Progress is possible only if we train ourselves to think about programs without thinking of them as pieces of executable code.” - Edsger W. Dijkstra Cristian Rodríguez R. Platform/OpenSUSE - Core Services SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development http://www.opensuse.org/
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Linda Walsh escribió:
Perhaps I'm confusing the question by the venue in which I am asking. If someone has installed OS, but is not working on developing the next OS release, and wants to apply a local patch -- not for public consumption, but for testing, then the solution is to use the OS build server?
you want to use "build" in that case,
I don't get it. If I just want to build an RPM that will be installed (only) on the same system that built it, why would I want to setup a chroot instead of just using rpmbuild (as a non-root user in case the spec is evil and tries to touch things it shouldn't)? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 03:14:50PM -0600, Bart Whiteley wrote:
Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
Linda Walsh escribió:
Perhaps I'm confusing the question by the venue in which I am asking. If someone has installed OS, but is not working on developing the next OS release, and wants to apply a local patch -- not for public consumption, but for testing, then the solution is to use the OS build server?
you want to use "build" in that case,
I don't get it. If I just want to build an RPM that will be installed (only) on the same system that built it, why would I want to setup a chroot instead of just using rpmbuild (as a non-root user in case the spec is evil and tries to touch things it shouldn't)?
The issue is easy, we test for one set of build dependencies. Your system might have more or less dependencies, where our configure / make script will break. You can just go and fix it for yourself of course, there is nothing against that. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
The concept of 'build' is broken for local user builds -- I *agree* with it for release methodology (though it may be overkill and inefficient), but the idea of using build is fundamentally flawed. You (perhaps for brevity) deleted a question in my prior post that build cannot deal with: Cristian Rodríguez wrote:
So build on modern laptops -- maybe would have 200GB total
-- (including OS and a possible windows partition). I asked if this would be 'the choice' for compiling / building rpms on a laptop these days. Also asked:
If you were running a MAC-Book "Air" and Parallels to run OSuse -- and I wanted to patch and rebuild 1 RPM, that I already have the sources installed for -- the suggested solution is to find a 'Hot-Spot', so I can connect to build my rpm?
--- Again...won't work -- you answered:
"build" will setup the chroot using a package set available in your harddisk, it is not mandatory to access the internet.
I just ran an attempt -- two in a row same results. Now 'temporarily ignoring performance configurations... The 'build' of my new openssh.spec (both builds make buildroots 318M buildroot 318M buildroot1 Neither laptop would have a prayer of using build just on the space it takes. Also at issue is where the src DVD's that build would require for building and installing would be located. Maybe you can burn a DVD for each set of RPM's you update, but the air is gonna die over backwards accessing that DVD -- the battery will die before the buildroot gets built. No, admitedly, it "only" took 245 seconds -- a bit over 4 minutes -- nearly all I/O off onto 15K-SAS3.0 RAID-0 drives -- 4GB memory on an x84 machine. That would mean about 12x more on a 2x1GHz-1GB 15K-SCSI-3 P-III -- not state of the art, but to compile one package -- um...about 50 minutes? Oh...and yeah...then it failed. Twice. Executing /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.perl... Executing /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.permissions... Finished. cp: omitting directory `/home/packages/specs/buildroot' ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----- building openssh.spec (user abuild) ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------- error: File /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/x11-ssh-askpass-1.2.4.1.tar.bz2: No such file or directory Yet .. ( knew someone would not pay attention to rpm macros.....but the source is there: /usr/src/packages/SOURCES/openssh-5.0p1/x11-ssh-askpass-1.2.4.1.tar.bz2 Build doesn't get as far as rpm -- which completes the build (as I added a source patch file to hack around the rpm.specfile bug.
you want to use "build" in that case, however if you are applying a "local patch" there must be a reason why you are doing that, let us to know the reason and then we can figure why the original package is not suitable for you, and improve it.
Yeah. Right. Been there...hasn't happened. I find that avenue of getting an improvement to be ... less than satisfying. Even the idea of putting each source package in a separate directly under SOURCES so that multiple sources could be loaded without fear of them overwriting them -- I got seriously flamed and told how stupid I was and there wasn't a chance in hell that suse would implement something that would completely destroy the way RPM worked. So I added : the following to /etc/rpmmacros: # # could use dirs-by-ver+rel, but likely to be overly complicated -- how # often are we going to need multple "releases" of the same version # unpacked at the same time.... # %_sourcedir %{_topdir}/SOURCES/%{name}-%{version}-%{release} # # so simpler sourcedir name: %_sourcedir %{_topdir}/SOURCES/%{name}-%{version} ------------------------ Yup...just was the end of the world. Sorry, but I really don't need to be told I'm an idiot that knows nothing when I make a suggestion. I file a bug about something that doesn't work -- and am told 'tough'... that's just the way it is. Another tells me rpmbuild for users is no longer supported -- they don't read the 1st bug report, then ask me to 're-explain' it in simple short steps -- I did. They refused to follow them -- they did it a different way *again* the 2nd time, and said my way of duplicating the error for them wasn't supported. Only bugs that are duplicated according to Suse guidelines will be accepted. ... I get *R*E*A*L* tired fighting uphill battles and showing into the wind. Sorry to come off a bit short...I'm tired...and patience is slightly taxed...sorry 99.99 times out of 100, if I subit suggests (RFE's) for projects, they get shot down, or I'm told to do it myself -- submit a patch, etc. So...rather than asking the "open source" community to do a patch for me... I decide I'd try the patches/tests myself -- do some benchmarking and if it looks good -- then champion the patches. I already pointed at the patches I wanted integrated -- both in the bug report and my initial mentioning of this issue on .... But try to understand this, you are saying now:
however if you are applying a "local patch" there must be a reason why you are doing that, let us to know the reason and then we can figure why the original package is not suitable for you, and improve it.
Yet in my email to you on Wed-May21-2008, 13:43:05 -0700 ----- I have a patch (standard linux patch composed of the output of "diff -u") (patch for High performance scp/ssh is from http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/ . ... I'd _like_ it if SuSE included the high-performance work for me, but I think it's probably too late for SuSE 11.0 -- and I'm not sure how easy it would be to convince SuSE, or someone else to include it in 11.1 (or beyond) as I don't know what the demand is for high-speed networking (>100Mb/s data throughput) among other OSuSE users/customers.... ---- My email was never answered. I repeated the request to thew mail-group:
I also mentioned that I had a patch (standard linux patch composed of the output of "diff -u") that I needed to apply to a version, *higher* than the one included in 10.3. The patch for High performance scp/ssh is from: "http://www.psc.edu/networking/projects/hpn-ssh/".
While others responded to the email, my suggestion about the patch I was trying to apply was made quite clear. It's not like I've been keeping it a secret. I even said it'd be great if SuSE did it, but... the response was *OVERWHELMING*.... So I continued to work on it myself -- including setting up build as I was told was the right thing to do -- and is what would cure my 'ills'. Instead build fails even sooner than rpmbuild. This is I think -- part of the problem -- The bug is in the rpmspec (that I can tell). Build uses rpm and rpmbuild (though it isn't fully compatible with rpm specfiles -- so how can build that isn't fully compatible with rpm specfiles build something that rpmbuild cannot -- Possible answer - the bugs in build are canceling out the bugs in the specfile -- a very rare situation, but I've seen stranger. So ...build doesn't work either. And oh...yes. rpmbuild was able to use slightly more than one cpu at times, giving close to a full 100% cpu utilization over the 69 seconds it takes to build openssh. build uses about 15% of one cpu. I know how to get rpm-build to use all 4 of my cpu's, Looks like build is gonna be around 16 or more times lower -- and that's only with a fast hard disk... "Build" is great for *some* things -- like building releases -- but for software development -- it's NOT a solution... So...when you gonna have the high-perf patches in openssh ready? :-) Or...when is the openssh.spec file going to be fixed (the suggested 'fix' for it was closed out as rpmbuild is not supported). Should I reopen it? ;-) Is the build-bug ignoring rpm-macros going to be fixed as well?... Seems like I've raised a few issues...no? (Sorry...my presentation skills sometimes aren't the best...sometimes do ok...such a joy!) .... Or...if I get it to pass my 'anal-retentive' requirements, I might suggest it for inclusion...:-) ..but in case you hadn't noticed -- my standards are a bit more demanding than what most people are used to ... nothing personal... I'm just a bit methodical...that and, unfortunately, slower than I used to be (can't do this full time). --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 04:06:13AM -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:
The concept of 'build' is broken for local user builds -- I *agree* with it for release methodology (though it may be overkill and inefficient), but the idea of using build is fundamentally flawed.
If this is just diskspace and you need to build in-system, please see it as your challenge as a developer to adjust the .spec file to match your system when using rpmbuild. We will happily accept (useful) patches to our .spec files via Bugzilla. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 27. Mai 2008 schrieb Linda Walsh:
Even locally, Is anyone suggesting that 'build' be used to rebuild an rpm's in that fashion?
I won't. Only as last resort if normal rpmbuild gives you weird problems, which won't happen for 95% of all cases. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Dienstag, 27. Mai 2008 schrieb Linda Walsh:
     Even locally, Is anyone suggesting that 'build' be used to rebuild an rpm's in that fashion?
I won't. Only as last resort if normal rpmbuild gives you weird problems, which won't happen for 95% of all cases.
Greetings, Stephan ---------------------------------------------------------------------
AFAICS build is strictly for openSUSE package builds and rebuilds, while rpmbuild is more generic. Even then using the openSUSE virtualbox-ose source rpm gives cryptic outpout as seen below. tindog:/home/lancelot/ftp/May08 # rpm -q libXalan-c-devel libXalan-c-devel-1.10-114 tindog:/home/lancelot/ftp/May08 # export BUILD_RPM_BUILD_STAGE=-bb tindog:/home/lancelot/ftp/May08 # build virtualbox-ose-1.6.0-5.1.src.rpm logging output to /var/tmp/build-root/.build.log... tindog started "build virtualbox-ose-1.6.0-5.1.src.rpm" at Wed May 28 21:09:20 BST 2008. Using BUILD_ROOT=/var/tmp/build-root Using BUILD_RPMS=/media/dvd/suse Using BUILD_ARCH=x86_64:i686:i586:i486:i386 processing src rpm /home/lancelot/ftp/May08/virtualbox-ose-1.6.0-5.1.src.rpm... init_buildsystem virtualbox-ose.spec ... expanding package dependencies... expansion error nothing provides libXalan-c-devel nothing provides libXerces-c-devel nothing provides bin86 nothing provides dev86 nothing provides libidl-devel nothing provides libxslt nothing provides qt3-devel nothing provides SDL-devel nothing provides kernel-syms nothing provides module-init-tools nothing provides pmtools nothing provides libxml2-devel nothing provides libxslt-devel nothing provides e2fsprogs-devel nothing provides update-desktop-files nothing provides compat-libstdc++ nothing provides hal-devel nothing provides pulseaudio-devel nothing provides qt3-devel-tools nothing provides xorg-x11-devel nothing provides kbuild nothing provides xorg-x11-server-sdk nothing provides gcc-32bit # ls /var/tmp/build-root/.build-srcdir/ 60-vboxdrv.rules Makefile-vboxvfs vbox-buildfix vbox-vboxfs-2.6.25 virtualbox-ose-64issue.diff virtualbox-system-yasm.diff LocalConfig.kmk README.SUSE vbox-futex.diff VirtualBox-1.6.0-OSE-patched.tar.bz2 virtualbox-ose-init-scripts.diff virtualbox-use-intree-yasm.diff Makefile use-o3-to-workaround-gcc-ice.diff vbox-kmp-vboxadd.diff virtualbox.desktop virtualbox-ose.spec virtualbox-validate-op-gcc43.diff Makefile-vboxadd vbox-2.6.25 Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 05:24:21PM -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...?
No, we have not discontinued it. We however recommend strongly using "build" (or others of our chroot setup using builds) to get a well-defined chroot build setup. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 05:24:21PM -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...?
No, we have not discontinued it.
We however recommend strongly using "build" (or others of our chroot setup using builds) to get a well-defined chroot build setup.
Recommending build instead of rpmbuild has some impact on standardization efforts... For instance, the LF Driver Backport Workgroup is working to create a standard spec file which can be used to build kernel module rpms on multiple distributions. It is problematic to make the standard spec file support build as well as rpmbuild. Thoughts? Thx, Ann
Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
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On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 09:42:59AM -0600, Ann Davis wrote:
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 05:24:21PM -0700, Linda Walsh wrote:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
When did that change go through? That seems like a major break from previous compatibility...?
No, we have not discontinued it.
We however recommend strongly using "build" (or others of our chroot setup using builds) to get a well-defined chroot build setup.
Recommending build instead of rpmbuild has some impact on standardization efforts... For instance, the LF Driver Backport Workgroup is working to create a standard spec file which can be used to build kernel module rpms on multiple distributions. It is problematic to make the standard spec file support build as well as rpmbuild. Thoughts?
Actually build uses rpmbuild internally, so I see no problem. Ciao, MArcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Marcus Meissner wrote:
On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 09:42:59AM -0600, Ann Davis wrote:
Recommending build instead of rpmbuild has some impact on standardization efforts... For instance, the LF Driver Backport Workgroup is working to create a standard spec file which can be used to build kernel module rpms on multiple distributions. It is problematic to make the standard spec file support build as well as rpmbuild. Thoughts?
Actually build uses rpmbuild internally, so I see no problem.
I want to use an rpm macro on the BuildRequires line. Works fine w/ rpmbuild, works fine with "build --no-init", but fails w/ build. I assume it's because build reads the "BuildRequires" line as part of its initialization stuff. But I would be glad to be incorrect on this... :-) Thx, Ann
Ciao, MArcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
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Am Dienstag, 27. Mai 2008 schrieb Linda Walsh:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
Huh? No, rpmbuild is fully supported. You just won't be able to rebuild every rpm on every system. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 07:55:40AM +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Dienstag, 27. Mai 2008 schrieb Linda Walsh:
Is it true that openSuSE has discontinued support for rebuilding rpms for their systems with 'rpmbuild'?
Huh? No, rpmbuild is fully supported. You just won't be able to rebuild every rpm on every system.
Indeed, it is e.g. a perfect way to rebuild packages from openSUSE 10.3 on a different architecture. For example, build service packages which you want to use on an architecture that the build service doesn't support. osc build respectively build.rpm in fact. use rpmbuild themselves. Peter -- "WARNING: This bug is visible to non-employees. Please be respectful!" SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Research & Development
participants (9)
-
Ann Davis -
Bart Whiteley -
Bernhard Walle -
Cristian Rodríguez -
Linda Walsh -
Marcus Meissner -
Peter Poeml -
Sid Boyce -
Stephan Kulow