[opensuse-factory] Closing the Ring
Dear Factory Users and Contributors, If you attended my OSC14 talk (or watched the video), you will know that we're cooking Factory following a different receipt than the past years. No unstable ingredients, replacing experiments with openQA. While the first steps have proven their benefits in avoiding regressions, I had the feeling in Dubrovnik that we need to go further to make it more obvious to Factory users that Factory is a tested rolling release and no longer a dumping group of experiments. So let me share some more background with you how Factory is developed now, because most of it is pretty transparent to you (for now): 1. Joe submits a package from the devel project to Factory (no change there) 2. Several reviewers are added and have a veto right: legal, factory-auto, opensuse-review-team, repo-checker (still no change) 3. One more reviewer is added now: factory-staging. This reviewer waits for the staging master to decide if the package needs staging. There are 2 reasons for a package to require staging: it's in a ring project or belongs to a larger group of packages that need to be integrated together. 4. A staging project will build a group of related or unrelated packages and create 2 DVDs from it. One smaller one that can only test "minimal X" and one with the desktops. 5. Those DVDs are synced to openqa.opensuse.org and are tested there in various setups. Right now it's 5 setups for one staging prj. 6. Only if all packages in the staging prj build and all setups are tested without flaw, the group of requests that make up a staging project is accepted into factory *as one*. 7. Packages not in rings will be accepted whenever there is one staging project to be accepted. 8. As soon as Factory has built all media (2 DVD, 6 Live CD, 2 NET iso and one FTP tree), it's copied as snapshot into openSUSE:Factory:ToTest. This project basically keeps copies of one specific set of ISOs, so Factory can integrate new stuff while the next steps happen 9. openqa.opensuse.org syncs these snapshots and tests even more scenarios on the real thing. As this can easily be the combination of several staging projects, there might be new bugs appearing and it's the first time e.g. Live media are tested. See e.g. http://s.kulow.org/20140510 for a test summary of one such snapshot. As you can easily see, there is a lot to test, so it can easily take a day to pass the tests. 10. Once openqa blessed the build, we will publish openSUSE:Factory:ToTest into download.opensuse.org/factory 11. Users enjoy a tested Factory The whole stunt has several implications: - If your package is in a staging prj and the staging prj has a problem, you will have to take care the staging prj as one succeeds to get your update into Factory. We're working on getting the notifications of progress in your mailbox. - openqa.opensuse.org will be more central to the whole development cycle, not just for releases. - Factory snapshots will happen less often, but if they happen they will have a good chance to work properly for you. - We will need to work from here to add more tests that make sense to avoid common regressions Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations. Greetings, Stephan -- This life is a test. It is only a test. Had this been an actual life, you would have received further instructions as to what to do and where to go. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Quoting Stephan Kulow
Dear Factory Users and Contributors,
[...]
3. One more reviewer is added now: factory-staging. This reviewer waits for the staging master to decide if the package needs staging. There are 2 reasons for a package to require staging: it's in a ring project or belongs to a larger group of packages that need to be integrated together.
Only to clarify this point. We can check the current rings from here: https://build.opensuse.org/project/subprojects/openSUSE:Factory:Rings I guest that we can expect some movement here. [...]
Greetings, Stephan
-- This life is a test. It is only a test. Had this been an actual life, you would have received further instructions as to what to do and where to go. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-13 13:21 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:
Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations.
If it hasn't happened already, the bulk of the OP probably should go on a Wiki page I think. A rolling release doesn't sound like a good place for spotting bugs in new software versions or packaging, which to me is what Factory was for the bulk of each cycle. If one wants to continue using Factory for that purpose, is there list of BS repos that a Factory installation needs to include to make it more like it used to be, to suit such a purpose? The BS Ring page doesn't seem suited for it, with only 3 members. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Felix Miata - 8:21 13.05.14 wrote:
On 2014-05-13 13:21 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:
Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations.
If it hasn't happened already, the bulk of the OP probably should go on a Wiki page I think.
A rolling release doesn't sound like a good place for spotting bugs in new software versions or packaging, which to me is what Factory was for the bulk of each cycle. If one wants to continue using Factory for that purpose, is there list of BS repos that a Factory installation needs to include to make it more like it used to be, to suit such a purpose? The BS Ring page doesn't seem suited for it, with only 3 members.
Well, Factory is still well suited for testing new software. The only change is that the worst and obvious bugs will hit automatic testing before it will be able to hit users. So you will still have the greatest and latest unless it is broken. And you can hunt for subtle bugs as the serious and most visible will be already checked for and fixed before software will get into Factory ;-) -- Michal HRUSECKY SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. openSUSE Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xFED656F6 19000 Praha 9 mhrusecky[at]suse.cz Czech Republic http://michal.hrusecky.net http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Stephan Kulow
While the first steps have proven their benefits in avoiding regressions, I had the feeling in Dubrovnik that we need to go further to make it more obvious to Factory users that Factory is a tested rolling release and no longer a dumping group of experiments.
This makes running a daily machine on Factory a lot more interesting for me. The whole experimental dumping ground thing made Factory a bit scary to non-developers who might have been interested in testing releases (like me).
Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations.
Is this ready to go now? Or still being established? As in if I go grab Factory later this week and install will I be stepping into the brave new world of "Users enjoy a tested Factory"? C. -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 13.05.2014 14:29, C wrote:
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Stephan Kulow
wrote: While the first steps have proven their benefits in avoiding regressions, I had the feeling in Dubrovnik that we need to go further to make it more obvious to Factory users that Factory is a tested rolling release and no longer a dumping group of experiments.
This makes running a daily machine on Factory a lot more interesting for me. The whole experimental dumping ground thing made Factory a bit scary to non-developers who might have been interested in testing releases (like me).
Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations.
Is this ready to go now? Or still being established? As in if I go grab Factory later this week and install will I be stepping into the brave new world of "Users enjoy a tested Factory"?
There is no reason to wait, the future is now :) Let me make one point clear though: we can only avoid breaking what we also test. E.g. we test that you can write 'Hello, if you can see this, oowriter works' into a oowriter (which is called lowriter these days, but openQA still tests oowriter :) That doesn't mean oowriter can't crash during save or print. This means factory will keep having bugs not covered by openQA. But any software will have bugs ;) Greetings, Stephan -- For perfect happiness, remember two things: (1) Be content with what you've got. (2) Be sure you've got plenty. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Stephan Kulow
On 13.05.2014 14:29, C wrote:
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Stephan Kulow
wrote: While the first steps have proven their benefits in avoiding regressions, I had the feeling in Dubrovnik that we need to go further to make it more obvious to Factory users that Factory is a tested rolling release and no longer a dumping group of experiments.
This makes running a daily machine on Factory a lot more interesting for me. The whole experimental dumping ground thing made Factory a bit scary to non-developers who might have been interested in testing releases (like me).
Now I want to hear about your experiences and expectations.
Is this ready to go now? Or still being established? As in if I go grab Factory later this week and install will I be stepping into the brave new world of "Users enjoy a tested Factory"?
There is no reason to wait, the future is now :)
Let me make one point clear though: we can only avoid breaking what we also test. E.g. we test that you can write 'Hello, if you can see this, oowriter works' into a oowriter (which is called lowriter these days, but openQA still tests oowriter :)
That doesn't mean oowriter can't crash during save or print. This means factory will keep having bugs not covered by openQA. But any software will have bugs ;)
Stuff breaks in the main release too :-) I'm not bothered by most ooopses except maybe Kernel panics that I can't iron out, and Nvidia drivers that I can't install anymore. anything else... if it breaks it can be fixed. It's just the experiments that put me personally off of running Factory all the time. I'll clean up and take a look at installing Factory again :-) Testing Factory more often is one way I can step up contributions. C. -- openSUSE 13.1 x86_64, KDE 4.13 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2014-05-13 at 14:40 +0200, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Let me make one point clear though: we can only avoid breaking what we also test. E.g. we test that you can write 'Hello, if you can see this, oowriter works' into a oowriter (which is called lowriter these days, but openQA still tests oowriter :)
That doesn't mean oowriter can't crash during save or print. This means factory will keep having bugs not covered by openQA. But any software will have bugs ;)
With my 'QA' hat on, I would describe the above situation with Factory as 'Acceptance' or 'Validation' Testing. The tests provided by staging and openQA should be enough to confirm whether a build/snapshot is 'Acceptable' - that is, usable in a general sense, and ready for more in depth testing. That sounds great to me, and is a vast improvement on the current situation. I can see myself returning to the 'good old days' where most of my machines are running Factory, not just one or two like now. - Richard -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Tirsdag den 13. maj 2014 13:21:17 skrev Stephan Kulow:
If you attended my OSC14 talk (or watched the video), you will know that we're cooking Factory following a different receipt than the past years. No unstable ingredients, replacing experiments with openQA.
While the first steps have proven their benefits in avoiding regressions, I had the feeling in Dubrovnik that we need to go further to make it more obvious to Factory users that Factory is a tested rolling release and no longer a dumping group of experiments.
I for one watched the video and got pretty excited about the prospects of the whole thing. If only Factory can reach a level of reliability/usability comparable to Debian Unstable, we might actually achieve the impossible and have bleeding edge users and stable, productive users in a symbiotic relationship. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (7)
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Alberto Planas Dominguez
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C
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Felix Miata
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Martin Schlander
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Michal Hrusecky
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Richard Brown
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Stephan Kulow