[opensuse-factory] gtk?-immodule-<lang> installation pre-selection
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on English-only installations? Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on KDE-only installations? Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on minimal-X installations? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le mardi 04 juin 2013, à 12:58 -0400, Felix Miata a écrit :
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on English-only installations?
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on KDE-only installations?
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on minimal-X installations?
Because you have gtk+ installed, and it's nice to allow people to write in languages without forcing them to install a obscure package -- and no, it's not necessarily just for people having this locale by default. But these packages can be removed from your machine if you really care. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-04 16:46 (GMT-0400) Vincent Untz composed:
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on English-only installations?
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on KDE-only installations?
Why are these always pre-selected to be installed on minimal-X installations?
Because you have gtk+ installed,
I didn't install gtk+. Firefox and/or SeaMonkey and/or Gimp did that - against my objection. There's no other reason I'm aware of for anything gtk to be on my (KDE) systems.
and it's nice to allow people to write in languages
Of course it is, if they have done anything at all to enable it. I did nothing to enable non-English support, so I expect to waste no resources for support I expect never to need that is not integral to something else that constitutes a necessary component of a minimal installation.
without forcing them to install a obscure package -- and
Whatever they do to enable non-English should do an automatic forcing, not a minimal English-only.
no, it's not necessarily just for people having this locale by default.
It seems like you failed to take into account keywords that I wrote, like: *English only*, and "minimal".
But these packages can be removed from your machine if you really care.
I care enough to ask why I have to extend installation time by separately tabooing 8 different packages on every installation to prevent wasting disk space and bandwidth for something that will never be used. The selected installation language was solely English, not non-English, and neither multilingual. Those who need support for additional languages should have to take some action to enable it. Those who don't shouldn't have to take affirmative action to avoid needless waste. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 17:18 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-04 16:46 (GMT-0400) Vincent Untz composed:
and it's nice to allow people to write in languages
Of course it is, if they have done anything at all to enable it. I did nothing to enable non-English support, so I expect to waste no resources for support I expect never to need that is not integral to something else that constitutes a necessary component of a minimal installation.
Linux is multiuser, multitasking, and also multilanguage by default. All languages are thus installed from the start, so that each user can choose his preferred language independently. :-) On most packages, the language parts are small, it makes no practical sense to use separate packages per language. Only some big packages separate languages in individual packages and allow you to select which to install. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGudDIACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U+8wCfSa41vMH3SihipvnWJ6CQci4l z8UAnj8e/2B3qKJbPq0gdT024RjMf/ir =2x8b -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 01:11 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
Linux is ... multilanguage by default.
This can be no more than partially true, as zypper is forever having SuSEconfig remind me it can't find CJK fonts for (uninstalled) Java to use. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 19:50 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 01:11 (GMT+0100) Carlos E. R. composed:
Linux is ... multilanguage by default.
This can be no more than partially true, as zypper is forever having SuSEconfig remind me it can't find CJK fonts for (uninstalled) Java to use.
Java is not a native Linux app :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGulGsACgkQtTMYHG2NR9Xz8gCfUcEEwokJL80finb/6c5m94gE fNcAn12OpJm8I2V8miTJnjv9SoS1/jZH =Gkhq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 03:29 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Linux is ... multilanguage by default.
This can be no more than partially true, as zypper is forever having SuSEconfig remind me it can't find CJK fonts for (uninstalled) Java to use.
Java is not a native Linux app :-)
SuSEconfig and zypper are. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 21:34 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 03:29 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Linux is ... multilanguage by default.
This can be no more than partially true, as zypper is forever having SuSEconfig remind me it can't find CJK fonts for (uninstalled) Java to use.
Java is not a native Linux app :-)
SuSEconfig and zypper are.
Yes, but it is Java you are talking about. They have their own rules. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGumrYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XbQQCfeJol3W1xPQMFPiECco6DoUbx HEgAoJFOuh5nwkQuj0knPwICPvCKw1eP =RE6d -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 03:56 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
zypper is forever having SuSEconfig remind me it can't find CJK fonts for (uninstalled) Java to use.
Java is not a native Linux app :-)
SuSEconfig and zypper are.
Yes, but it is Java you are talking about.
No I'm not. Java isn't installed or telling me anything. It's zypper at every dup or up calling SuSEconfig, which is complaining it can't find CJK fonts that I don't need and nothing I'll ever use needs. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 22:09 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 03:56 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Yes, but it is Java you are talking about.
No I'm not. Java isn't installed or telling me anything. It's zypper at every dup or up calling SuSEconfig, which is complaining it can't find CJK fonts that I don't need and nothing I'll ever use needs.
You mean this? generating java font setup Warning: cannot find a sans serif simplified Chinese font. Simplified Chinese in Java might not work. Warning: cannot find a serif simplified Chinese font. Simplified Chinese in Java might not work. Warning: cannot find a sans serif traditional Chinese font. Traditional Chinese in Java might not work. Warning: cannot find a serif traditional Chinese font. Traditional Chinese in Java might not work. Just ignore it, it is just a warning! Who cares? Anyway, that's /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.fonts which calls /usr/sbin/fonts-config, a perl script. I know no perl, but I see a line: =item B<--(no)java> Generate (or don't generate) font setup for Java 1.4.x and Java 1.5.x. so perhaps that's an option to disable java. Maybe you can edit it. Or find out how the distribution can be adapted, with a patch, for a minimal setup without java so that the corresponding part of the script is disabled. Actually, that code section generates the "fonts-config" man page. Reading it, I see: --(no)java Generate (or don't generate) font setup for Java 1.4.x and Java 1.5.x. So you can edit /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.fonts, and change just one line: /usr/sbin/fonts-config --verbose -nojava and then you don't get that obnoxious warning any more :-) (I actually did that change in my machine to try it out. If I did, so can you :-) ) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGuomAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WvjwCeJyL4ADEpIe1013+ysjkapyKR Fp8An3t4/6V9h70wZly10FXm45n9T/kl =7fRK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 04:28 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Just ignore it, it is just a warning! Who cares?
It's noise (onscreen and in logs) created on account of unneeded and/or unwanted packages (cf. $SUBJECT). ....
you can edit /sbin/conf.d/SuSEconfig.fonts, and change just one line:
/usr/sbin/fonts-config --verbose -nojava
and then you don't get that obnoxious warning any more :-)
(I actually did that change in my machine to try it out. If I did, so can you :-) )
There's an IMO easier way (since several things in /etc/sysconfig need fixing on firstboot anyway) that I've been using for several releases: # grep GENERATE_JAVA /etc/sysconfig/fonts-config GENERATE_JAVA_FONT_SETUP="no" But, it needs to be remembered and implemented for each of many installations and keeps coming back with each new Factory milestone installation for each system, virtually the same problem as in OP, pointless noise and waste. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-06-05 04:52, Felix Miata wrote:
But, it needs to be remembered and implemented for each of many installations and keeps coming back with each new Factory milestone installation for each system, virtually the same problem as in OP, pointless noise and waste.
Well, if that bothered me that much, I would create a script that would do those modifications. Using 'sed' you can edit a text file and add your own settings. You just need to copy that script to the installed machine and run it to customize to your liking. Edit the configs, remove unwanted packages, mark them taboo, whatever. Maybe autoyast is the tool, if your needs are more complex. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGuq4wACgkQIvFNjefEBxovCgCbBYCfUxCy6sdubSfiktFSLZst jfIAnA1FF1RspCSvQnnpr1AK5AHtjVcv =Ar5x -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 05:07 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
But, it needs to be remembered and implemented for each of many installations and keeps coming back with each new Factory milestone installation for each system, virtually the same problem as in OP, pointless noise and waste.
Well, if that bothered me that much, I would create a script that would do those modifications. Using 'sed' you can edit a text file and add your own settings. You just need to copy that script to the installed machine and run it to customize to your liking.
Edit the configs, remove unwanted packages, mark them taboo, whatever.
You're describing a workaround for a wasteful annoyance. The reason for the thread is attempt to find out whether annoying behavior is WAD or bug. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-06-05 05:18, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 05:07 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
You're describing a workaround for a wasteful annoyance. The reason for the thread is attempt to find out whether annoying behavior is WAD or bug.
Then find out what exact pattern brings in those packages. If I were to install many computers, I assure you that I would create such a customization script, bug or no bug. For this particular thing or for the hundreds of things I customize. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGur0YACgkQIvFNjefEBxpY2wCfT1yUKoWrPxNI2HpFi2KJY8Ed qPEAoNVIhdTGfa1gxf4E/XfFZN/Jyq5A =g+Ma -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 05:23 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Then find out what exact pattern brings in those packages.
If I were to install many computers, I assure you that I would create such a customization script, bug or no bug.
I forgot most of what little I ever knew about scripting at least 2 decades ago. The purpose of what I do would be defeated by exact replication, which in part at least is unique installations so as to discover whatever things I can that don't work or don't work sensibly, and report them so that they stand a chance of correction prior to GA. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-06-05 05:39, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 05:23 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Then find out what exact pattern brings in those packages.
If I were to install many computers, I assure you that I would create such a customization script, bug or no bug.
I forgot most of what little I ever knew about scripting at least 2 decades ago.
The purpose of what I do would be defeated by exact replication, which in part at least is unique installations so as to discover whatever things I can that don't work or don't work sensibly, and report them so that they stand a chance of correction prior to GA.
Well, then you have to find out what pattern brings in those files. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGvH4EACgkQIvFNjefEBxoBywCglKMK/25H1gHgkBA10VhpyZzU 4T4AnjT7nUR7WzJGGrGKnhOQNPyRLEBH =OlRC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 13:22 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Well, then you have to find out what pattern brings in those files.
The pattern seems to be quite simply this: 1-install minimal any supported openSUSE version: all are pre-selected 2-install minimal some other distro: no similar packages are pre-selected -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 13:22 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 05:23 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Then find out what exact pattern brings in those packages.
If I were to install many computers, I assure you that I would create such a customization script, bug or no bug.
I forgot most of what little I ever knew about scripting at least 2 decades ago.
The purpose of what I do would be defeated by exact replication, which in part at least is unique installations so as to discover whatever things I can that don't work or don't work sensibly, and report them so that they stand a chance of correction prior to GA.
Well, then you have to find out what pattern brings in those files.
How? I just confirmed with fresh factory-snapshot installation: 1-select minimal X 2-select software details 3-select installation summary tab that 4 gtk2 & 4 gtk3 are already selected, even though I've added 0 packages at that point. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2013-06-05 at 16:55 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 13:22 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Well, then you have to find out what pattern brings in those files.
How?
I a previous post, I showed how to list the contents of a zypper pattern. What I did not find was how to list all the available patterns. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGvpwUACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VA/ACbBVjk2MK/ujYEkgTl+p0UPlDr cIsAnjov9JyDf+lbnk1iKby9YBVGShxg =WUJg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 01:11 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
All languages are thus installed from the start, so that each user can choose his preferred language independently. :-)
On most packages, the language parts are small, it makes no practical sense to use separate packages per language.
Only some big packages separate languages in individual packages and allow you to select which to install.
If all the above is true, why are amharic, inuktitut, thai & vietnamese pre-selected gtk?-immodules, but not multipress, xim and tigrigna? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-06-05 02:06, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 01:11 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
If all the above is true, why are amharic, inuktitut, thai & vietnamese pre-selected gtk?-immodules, but not multipress, xim and tigrigna?
Did you install from the live CD, perhaps? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGug2cACgkQIvFNjefEBxriDQCfe5Vjuo9Ry409PPHJVMq6RYkq LC4An31tSDcO6xNPivsDcb+K3O6aA4QM =VUcf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 02:16 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
why are amharic, inuktitut, thai & vietnamese pre-selected gtk?-immodules, but not multipress, xim and tigrigna?
Did you install from the live CD, perhaps?
The only live Linux I ever install from is Knoppix. Far and away my most common install is minimal X via HTTP initialized by Grub Legacy boot of installation linux and initrd. Even when I install minimal server these packages are pre-selected. When I don't install minimal, it is never openSUSE to any of my own systems using Gnome, and I never do anything intentionally that would add support for any language but English. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2013-06-05 02:28, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 02:16 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Did you install from the live CD, perhaps?
The only live Linux I ever install from is Knoppix. Far and away my most common install is minimal X via HTTP initialized by Grub Legacy boot of installation linux and initrd. Even when I install minimal server these packages are pre-selected. When I don't install minimal, it is never openSUSE to any of my own systems using Gnome, and I never do anything intentionally that would add support for any language but English.
I ask because the live CD image has a few languages preselected, and it is difficult to remove them. Anyway, what I said is the general rule: some big packages, like libreoffice, mozilla, kde... allow language selection. Most small packages do not. Besides that, when you select a language, you get that language strings for a lot of apps, installed or not. For example, kde3-i18n-es or kde4-l10n-es are like that. I could complain about getting strings for packages I did not install! ;-) On the other hand, gtk2-immoule-amharidc contains only one file, /usr/lib64/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/immodules/im-am-et.so, of only 19648 bytes (I'm looking at the 12.1 version). Not that much. It is not a language string module, it is an input method. My previous explanation may not apply to it. Maybe it is not a hard dependency, probably a recommend. And 20KB is not worth much effort :-) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlGujkUACgkQIvFNjefEBxrdmACeJLRd37bIOC7BwtW2WTRlsk2o IBcAnidiBSla02oAgsw6BmKS7tQ7jSHL =58VU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 03:03 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Maybe it is not a hard dependency, probably a recommend.
It's no hard dependency. I've been tabooing and/or removing them for at least 3 years, with no apparent ill effects. I'm tired of the nuisance they constitute. My systems are all KDE, so gtk should be limited to hard deps on actually installed gtk packages required by the few unavoidable gtk apps intentionally installed.
And 20KB is not worth much effort :-)
It's 20k times 8, many times a year here, not counting any updating that occurs if I let them get installed in the first place, and not to mention their needless presence and waste of bandwidth on hundreds of thousands of other systems. It's wasteful. Waste is bad. Installation selections that include minimal in their title or description should by definition exclude all soft deps and all recommends. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 21:32 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 03:03 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
Maybe it is not a hard dependency, probably a recommend.
It's no hard dependency. I've been tabooing and/or removing them for at least 3 years, with no apparent ill effects. I'm tired of the nuisance they constitute. My systems are all KDE, so gtk should be limited to hard deps on actually installed gtk packages required by the few unavoidable gtk apps intentionally installed.
Well, you can find out what recomends it, and then perhaps report the bug. I can't, I don't such a minimal system without GTK. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGum1QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WUTACdFT7a/sWNRnt+na62Z+VjArFs zcAAnAswOlUJtqekMxsuMzS1QojsLGFU =yiO0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-06-05 03:58 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
you can find out what recomends it
I don't know how to find out what recommends uninstalled packages. Every time I try to find more than overview info about uninstalled packages I get nowhere. I'm not sure this has anything to do with dependency or recommends in a normal sense anyway. They are *always* preselected when I look at YaST's package installation summary, as if there is a foundational package pre-selection set loaded on entry to package selection process following selection of any minimal installation type, and these packages were arbitrarily dumped into it several years ago. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2013-06-04 at 22:23 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 03:58 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
you can find out what recomends it
I don't know how to find out what recommends uninstalled packages. Every time I try to find more than overview info about uninstalled packages I get nowhere.
I'm not sure this has anything to do with dependency or recommends in a normal sense anyway. They are *always* preselected when I look at YaST's package installation summary, as if there is a foundational package pre-selection set loaded on entry to package selection process following selection of any minimal installation type, and these packages were arbitrarily dumped into it several years ago.
Assuming that the tag is "SUGGESTS", then the query would be this: cer@Telcontar:~> rpm -q -a --queryformat "%{NAME} %{VERSION} %{RELEASE} %{arch} *%{SUGGESTS}*\n" | grep immodule gtk3-immodule-vietnamese 3.2.1 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk2-immodule-thai 2.24.7 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk2-immodule-inuktitut 2.24.7 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk3-immodule-thai 3.2.1 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk2-immodule-amharic 2.24.7 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk2-immodule-vietnamese 2.24.7 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk3-immodule-amharic 3.2.1 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* gtk3-immodule-inuktitut 3.2.1 2.5.1 x86_64 *(none)* cer@Telcontar:~> You can see the list of available tags with rpm --querytags | less and find out which is appropriate. I could not find anything wanting those packages, so they maybe in a zypper/yast pattern somewhere. I think that "zypper info -t pattern" would list it. I have not seen a way to list all patterns, or I would do it. It's late here, I must go to sleep. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 12.1 x86_64 "Asparagus" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlGuqbwACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XAEACfcoNJ37209fnpnEDbZU8xbsU3 stkAn1/pmC+rltRJyO7Uan3tsSlTYqeU =HN+W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 5 Jun 2013 02:16, Carlos E. R.
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On 2013-06-05 02:06, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-06-05 01:11 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
If all the above is true, why are amharic, inuktitut, thai & vietnamese pre-selected gtk?-immodules, but not multipress, xim and tigrigna?
Did you install from the live CD, perhaps?
Installed from scratch: OSS 12.3 from Install-DVD selects: (via a gtk3-app and a gtk2-app) gtk3-immodule-vietnamese gtk3-immodule-thai gtk3-immodule-inuktitut gtk3-immodule-amharic gtk2-immodule-vietnamese gtk2-immodule-thai gtk2-immodule-inuktitut gtk2-immodule-amharic IMHO simple installing gtk[23]-immodule-xim would make far more sense, if at all. - Yamaban. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Vincent Untz -
Yamaban