Lars Marowsky-Bree writes:

Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo?

The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Lars Marowsky-Bree writes:

On 2013-10-10T17:23:17, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo? The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster.

"a bit"? The KMPs were built yesterday morning!

Factory is a very big project. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, SUSE Labs, schwab@suse.de GPG Key fingerprint = 0196 BAD8 1CE9 1970 F4BE 1748 E4D4 88E3 0EEA B9D7 "And now for something completely different." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 05:41:54PM +0200, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:

On 2013-10-10T17:40:30, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo? The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster. "a bit"? The KMPs were built yesterday morning! Factory is a very big project.

Yes. But why build & publish packages further downstream that are uninstallable?

Surely I must be missing something; many people must be actively developing against Factory. There must be a way to get consistent builds out of the system, or build against a different target.

Not many people develop with hard version requirements against e.g. the kernel. You probably dont need the hard version requirement either for a dot release.

If not, that basically means that I (we) can't use Factory as a development base. It'd mean we'd instead have to build & test on 12.3/Tumbleweed, or maybe 13.1 one day. A delay of 1,5+ days where we can't install new images or update old ones doesn't work.

Or the kernel of the day repository, which probably rebuilds faster.

Could someone please tell me that I'm an idiot and missing something obvious? I'd really appreciate that!

Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-10-10T17:23:17, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo? The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster.

OK, I'm convinced now I must be doing tremenduously stupid here, or there's a severe bug in how Factory gets published. By now, it's Sunday. The situation has been like this since Wednesday. Problem: nothing provides kernel-uname-r = 3.11.4-2-default needed by ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 2: break ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies n:h:F builds against openSUSE:Factory/standard. n:h:F and Factory are the only two repositories configured on the system. Surely the two repositories shouldn't be out-of-sync for what's now at least 4 days? Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Son, 2013-10-13 at 11:42 +0200, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:

On 2013-10-10T17:23:17, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo? The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster.

OK, I'm convinced now I must be doing tremenduously stupid here, or there's a severe bug in how Factory gets published.

By now, it's Sunday. The situation has been like this since Wednesday.

Problem: nothing provides kernel-uname-r = 3.11.4-2-default needed by ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 2: break ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies

n:h:F builds against openSUSE:Factory/standard. n:h:F and Factory are the only two repositories configured on the system.

Surely the two repositories shouldn't be out-of-sync for what's now at least 4 days?

Factory was last published on Oct 8; And as long as there will be checkins happening in order to fix bugs, there will be packages building and publishing won't happen. The repository is ~ 7000 source packages. Publishing only happens when all of them are completed. If the release team takes the day off, there is actually a good chance that the build completes today; there are only like 40 packages left to be done (for standard... /snapshot is at the very beginning and only did 7 packages so far). Feel free to make use of the tools provided, the project view for openSUSE:Factory gives a lot of insight into the current situation https://build.opensuse.org/project/show/openSUSE:Factory You're facing the typical Factory issue: the repositories cannot all be synced against each other and once in a while there are issues like this. Building against releases is easier from that PoV. Also, things like kernel modules are much more fragile, as they have those hard version requirements.. Most other packages are much less specific in the required versions. Dominique. -- Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Son, 2013-10-13 at 14:25 +0200, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:

On 2013-10-13T12:22:44, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

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Factory was last published on Oct 8; And as long as there will be checkins happening in order to fix bugs, there will be packages building and publishing won't happen.

The repository is ~ 7000 source packages. Publishing only happens when all of them are completed.

Meaning: openSUSE:Factory is useless as a continuous integration & delivery vehicle, and for testing. "Yay."

I think you're just hit by bad timiming; there are large parts of the prject developed in the same way and guess what? It works... despite not being fully optimal, in normal cases it's a few hours diff only (openSUSE:* projects have a higher prio on the scheduler and are usually built first). At this moment, 'continuous integration' is just low prio.. Did you hear about the plans for a 13.1 release? THAT is where current resources are diverted to (believe it or not.. some people DO want to see a stable release that can be used by end users).

Or publishing needs to happen incrementally, while trying to apply more heuristics to avoid unnecessary rebuilds (those w/o ABI/API changes)?

Please feel free to draft up a full proposal, preferably accompanied by patches, that does exactly what you want it to do.

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You're facing the typical Factory issue: the repositories cannot all be synced against each other and once in a while there are issues like this. Building against releases is easier from that PoV.

If Factory is that unusable, there needs to be a way to build against the published snapshot at the very least.

It's not unusable.. as said, you have bad luck with timing, paired with the rare fact that you require exact kernel versions. Many other projects are not blocked by this at all.

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Also, things like kernel modules are much more fragile, as they have those hard version requirements.. Most other packages are much less specific in the required versions.

The hard version dependencies replaced the more dynamic kABI-based symbols. That appears to be a huge step backwards for this case.

Please bring that forward to the kernel maintainers, who also maintaine the kmp macros to my knowledge.. the hard dependency on a kernel version is indeed a bit weird; 3.11 should be sufficient; 3.11.3 is not supposed to break compatibility to installed modules. Dominique -- Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:

Like I said, the very least we need for Factory is that we can build against the published snapshot, not just the live repo.

Is there a wiki page that describes the factory repo options and relevant names? I thought we had the options of building against: Factory-live Factory-snapshot Factory-milestone But the names of the relevant repos are unclear to me. There is also factory-pure which I have no idea what it is. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-10-13T20:30:26, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Or publishing needs to happen incrementally, [...] Think, for example, that libcurl4 became libcurl5. But now you have 6999 other packages that more or less depend on libcurl4, which is no longer present in factory -- and this would make installation from scratch practically impossible.

If you publish incrementally, you might suddenly end up with a state that cannot be installed at all. That sucks even more.

Of course you shouldn't publish like this if you *know* you have dependencies you can't satisfy. "incrementally" does not imply "each package, independently and immediately". That is obvious. (In any case, that is exactly what OBS does right now if your build dependencies happen to spawn repos.) Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-10-14T09:11:13, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Of course you shouldn't publish like this if you *know* you have dependencies you can't satisfy. "incrementally" does not imply "each package, independently and immediately". That is obvious. Which makes it obvious that you cannot publish until all builds are done.

No, it doesn't. The keyword being "dependencies you can't satisfy". You may well publish packages that don't break dependencies; since the downstream packages will still be installable. (Yes, I know, there could be shared library etc inconsistencies if stuff like soname aren't updated properly, but we can handle that by better handling sonames or even automated shared library signatures.) Besides, what you describe as "cannot be done" is exactly what OBS does now if spawning repositories (so even by your standard, OBS is doing something wrong now). If it didn't, I'd have complained about my repos not being published at all - instead of them being published inconsistently ;-) Regards, Lars -- Architect Storage/HA SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes." -- Oscar Wilde -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Quoting Jan Engelhardt :

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No, it doesn't. The keyword being "dependencies you can't satisfy". You may well publish packages that don't break dependencies; since the downstream packages will still be installable.

I like the sound of that - publish whenever ($good_time && (zypper says ok)), where good_time may be 1h or whatever else so that repomd generation does not become the #1 cpu burner. That is also quite a bottleneck :/

We are talking odd theories here. The 'original' request was to have inter-repo dependencies always satisfiable. This is already not guaranteed within a repo (think package failure against new versions with soname change). Requesting it over project boundaries would mean OBS needs to settle completely before it can publish.. and only if everything built successfully, in order to guarantee install-ability.. I hope we won't ever consider this. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 13.10.2013 12:22, Dimstar / Dominique Leuenberger wrote:

On Son, 2013-10-13 at 11:42 +0200, Lars Marowsky-Bree wrote:

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On 2013-10-10T17:23:17, Andreas Schwab wrote:

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Which I already use. There doesn't seem do be a downloadable repo? The download repos for factory always lag behind a bit, whereas small repos are published faster.

OK, I'm convinced now I must be doing tremenduously stupid here, or there's a severe bug in how Factory gets published.

By now, it's Sunday. The situation has been like this since Wednesday.

Problem: nothing provides kernel-uname-r = 3.11.4-2-default needed by ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 1: do not install ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 Solution 2: break ocfs2-kmp-default-1.8_k3.11.4_2-0.19.5.x86_64 by ignoring some of its dependencies

n:h:F builds against openSUSE:Factory/standard. n:h:F and Factory are the only two repositories configured on the system.

Surely the two repositories shouldn't be out-of-sync for what's now at least 4 days?

Factory was last published on Oct 8; And as long as there will be checkins happening in order to fix bugs, there will be packages building and publishing won't happen.

The repository is ~ 7000 source packages. Publishing only happens when all of them are completed. This is not a problem usually. We can publish like 4-5 builds a day, just see

osc jobhistory openSUSE:Factory _product:openSUSE-ftp-ftp-i586_x86_64 images local But what you also see: the build from 8th is still stuck in building and there lies the real problem. All other theories aside. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org