[opensuse-factory] updates to 10.2
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one. -- "Let your conversation be always full of grace." Colossians 4:6 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Felix Miata wrote:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
/pub/suse/update/10.2/ Yes, it is a pity. Third generation of disturbance already. Cheers -e -- Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 07:20:44PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
How did you install? Did you run the Online Registration step? Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2006/12/21 09:26 (GMT+0100) Marcus Meissner apparently typed:
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 07:20:44PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
How did you install?
NFS hosted DVD iso.
Did you run the Online Registration step?
No. Whenever I tried that during factory alpha & beta & RC stages it always failed, so I skipped it. -- "Let your conversation be always full of grace." Colossians 4:6 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 03:38:43AM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2006/12/21 09:26 (GMT+0100) Marcus Meissner apparently typed:
On Wed, Dec 20, 2006 at 07:20:44PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
How did you install?
NFS hosted DVD iso.
Did you run the Online Registration step?
No. Whenever I tried that during factory alpha & beta & RC stages it always failed, so I skipped it.
It should have worked in the RCs. You should try it now ;) Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Thursday 21 December 2006 01:20 schrieb Felix Miata:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand
Do you use the zen updater or the opensuse updater ?
and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
The update source should be indeed there. Add http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/ as URL in the YaST source management module, to get one for sure. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2006/12/21 11:02 (GMT+0100) Adrian Schröter apparently typed:
Am Thursday 21 December 2006 01:20 schrieb Felix Miata:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand
Do you use the zen updater or the opensuse updater ?
Whatever the installer put there by default. The titlebar simply says "Software Updater", and there's no about button. No clues I can tell in its configuration panel either. "Services" are type zypp.
and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
The update source should be indeed there. Add
No thank you. I've rarely seen a slower source anywhere. It generally works at 33k modem speed here. I later saw at mirrors.kernel.org that inexplicably they live in /suse rather than in /opensuse. I added that and updated last night. The updater on the kicker still says there are 13 updates waiting. I double checked in YaST online update, and it claims there are "no patches available". I closed YaST and clicked on the updater, then update. It wants to install about 30 additional packages. What's going on here?
as URL in the YaST source management module, to get one for sure. -- "Let your conversation be always full of grace." Colossians 4:6 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2006-12-21 at 09:35 -0500, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2006/12/21 11:02 (GMT+0100) Adrian Schröter apparently typed:
Am Thursday 21 December 2006 01:20 schrieb Felix Miata:
The updater on the kicker says there 11 updates available to download. YaST online update claims there are none. How do I get the right hand
Do you use the zen updater or the opensuse updater ?
Whatever the installer put there by default. The titlebar simply says "Software Updater", and there's no about button. No clues I can tell in its configuration panel either. "Services" are type zypp.
and the left hand synchronized here? Where are the online updates on the mirrors? YaST sources seems to be missing an updates source. I don't seem to be able to find any update directories on any of my usual mirrors. I don't want to replace my current kernel if updates has a newer one.
The update source should be indeed there. Add
No thank you. I've rarely seen a slower source anywhere. It generally works at 33k modem speed here. I later saw at mirrors.kernel.org that inexplicably they live in /suse rather than in /opensuse. I added that and updated last night.
The updater on the kicker still says there are 13 updates waiting. I double checked in YaST online update, and it claims there are "no patches available". I closed YaST and clicked on the updater, then update. It wants to install about 30 additional packages. What's going on here?
Because the updater on the kicker is used to update all packages you have sources for, not just the security updates you get with YOU. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata schrieb:
No thank you. I've rarely seen a slower source anywhere. It generally works at 33k modem speed here. I later saw at mirrors.kernel.org that inexplicably they live in /suse rather than in /opensuse. I added that and updated last night.
This isn't inexplicable. This http://mirrors.kernel.org/suse/update/10.2/ is a mirror of: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/ And this http://mirrors.kernel.org/opensuse/distribution/10.2/ is a mirror of: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/ mirrors.kernel.org is mirroring everything accurately, exactly as laid out on the origin servers.
The updater on the kicker still says there are 13 updates waiting. I double checked in YaST online update, and it claims there are "no patches available". I closed YaST and clicked on the updater, then update. It wants to install about 30 additional packages. What's going on here?
YOU shows only patches, zen-updater shows patches and newer versions of packages. These are different kinds of updates. This should become an faq some day. You can make both display the same thing by clicking on the small, hyperlink-like looking thing labeled "Patches" at the bottom of the zen-updater main window. Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2006/12/21 16:18 (GMT+0100) Andreas Hanke apparently typed:
Felix Miata schrieb:
No thank you. I've rarely seen a slower source anywhere. It generally works at 33k modem speed here. I later saw at mirrors.kernel.org that inexplicably they live in /suse rather than in /opensuse. I added that and updated last night.
This isn't inexplicable.
This
is a mirror of:
And this
is a mirror of:
mirrors.kernel.org is mirroring everything accurately, exactly as laid out on the origin servers.
The inexplicable part is that the base tree doesn't contain everything pertaining to a particular release: This: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/ Should be: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/opensuse/update/10.2/ Because: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/ Is not: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/suse/distribution/10.2/
The updater on the kicker still says there are 13 updates waiting. I double checked in YaST online update, and it claims there are "no patches available". I closed YaST and clicked on the updater, then update. It wants to install about 30 additional packages. What's going on here?
YOU shows only patches, zen-updater shows patches and newer versions of packages. These are different kinds of updates.
There should be no way to choose to update with a GUI tool and not be shown everything that is available, except by explicit choice to show less than everything. People are going to see the short list object, choose it, and think everything is all up to date, just like I did last night.
This should become an faq some day. You can make both display the same thing by clicking on the small, hyperlink-like looking thing labeled "Patches" at the bottom of the zen-updater main window. -- "Let your conversation be always full of grace." Colossians 4:6 NIV
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Felix Miata schrieb:
The inexplicable part is that the base tree doesn't contain everything pertaining to a particular release:
This: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/
Should be: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/opensuse/update/10.2/
Because: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/
Why? ftp.suse.com is /suse/, ftp.opensuse.org is /opensuse/. The mirror thing is not a problem either, the base distribution is separated from the update tree because mirrors don't necessarily want to have everything. There are many mirrors which have only the update tree, and there are some mirrors which have only the base distribution. Most mirrors don't even have both. Mirrors are documented/collected in the wiki. Users don't have to browse mirrors themselves, but if they want to, they can be expected to understand the mirror infrastructure themselves. I don't see why the mirrors shouldn't have the base tree and the update tree together, but I don't see why they should change their setup to have them together either because these really originate from different servers. The proposed change introduces inconsistency. http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/ http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/ ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat Do you see the pattern?
There should be no way to choose to update with a GUI tool and not be shown everything that is available, except by explicit choice to show less than everything. People are going to see the short list object, choose it, and think everything is all up to date, just like I did last night.
Who made up this specification? Right now it's the other way round. You won't be able to get this into YOU. You're expecting YOU to do something it never claimed to do. Updating any sort of packages other than those that belong to a patch is explicitly unsupported. All security updates from SUSE are part of a patch; if YOU doesn't show anything, they are all installed. For anything else there is the regular software installation module: /sbin/yast2 sw_single (And yes, the functionality to update all packages to their most recent versions is really there. Just look for it.) Andreas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On 2006/12/21 17:18 (GMT+0100) Andreas Hanke apparently typed:
Felix Miata schrieb:
The inexplicable part is that the base tree doesn't contain everything pertaining to a particular release:
Because: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/
Why?
ftp.suse.com is /suse/, ftp.opensuse.org is /opensuse/.
Yet another artificial distinction, obfuscation worthy of M$. No one whose mind works logically expects to find updates for a distribution whose home is ftp.opensuse.org on ftp.suse.com, unless one is a mere symlink for the other, which in this case is untrue, as only the latter has updates for the releases whose apparent home is ftp.opensuse.org. ftp.suse.com is the logical place to find only updates for non-open suse products, not for opensuse products.
The mirror thing is not a problem either, the base distribution is separated from the update tree because mirrors don't necessarily want to have everything.
Then follow Mandriva's lead: Up to higher level directory Directory: 10.0 04/05/24 00:00:00 Directory: 10.1 04/12/01 00:00:00 Directory: 10.2 05/10/14 00:00:00 Directory: 2005 06/11/07 17:40:00 Directory: 2006.0 05/10/18 00:00:00 Directory: 2007.0 06/09/22 13:21:00 Directory: 9.1 03/10/16 00:00:00 Directory: 9.2 03/10/13 00:00:00 Directory: current 06/11/08 05:48:00 Directory: iso 06/10/10 05:44:00 Directory: updates 06/12/21 23:15:00 No mirror operator should have any problem figuring out how to keep particular subtrees instead of everything.
I don't see why the mirrors shouldn't have the base tree and the update tree together,
My point exactly.
but I don't see why they should change their setup to have them together either because these really originate from different servers.
Why should any mere mortal user care from what server they originate? Users expect updates for opensuse products to originate from the same place as the opensuse products themselves - opensuse - not from (un)open suse.
The proposed change introduces inconsistency.
http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/ http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/ ftp://ftp.adobe.com/pub/adobe ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat
Do you see the pattern?
Yes. My bookmarks, hotlist and favorites databases all require twice as many entries each for SUSE instead of one as with sensible distros.
There should be no way to choose to update with a GUI tool and not be shown everything that is available, except by explicit choice to show less than everything. People are going to see the short list object, choose it, and think everything is all up to date, just like I did last night.
Who made up this specification? Right now it's the other way round. You won't be able to get this into YOU. You're expecting YOU to do something it never claimed to do.
Updating any sort of packages other than those that belong to a patch is explicitly unsupported.
All security updates from SUSE are part of a patch; if YOU doesn't show anything, they are all installed.
Patch, smatch. All a normal user cares about is getting broken stuff fixed, not the semantics of making updaters do their job or the names of the files they use to do their jobs. If the title of the app says Online Update (as YaST calls it), I expect update to mean update, not partial update, unless the first thing it does is tell me I'm probably in the wrong place if I want more than a subset of available updates, or unless in YaST right beside "Online Update" is some clearly distinguishable alternative that does offer a complete update. If my meaning escapes you, try Ubuntu's apt-get upgrade, or Mandriva's urpmi --auto-update.
(And yes, the functionality to update all packages to their most recent versions is really there. Just look for it.)
Look for it where? In YaST Online Update? If it's there somewhere, it isn't unambiguously described. -- "Let your conversation be always full of grace." Colossians 4:6 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 21 December 2006 10:00, Felix Miata wrote:
This: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/
Should be: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/opensuse/update/10.2/
Because: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/
Felix is right about the directory tree not making sense. The updates are not in the same path as the distribution. Why? Consistency throughout would be greatly appreciated. Please consider that having the /update and /distribution and the additional repositories such as software.opensuse.org/download/KDE: in a logical, easy to follow order would make openSUSE a lot easier to use. For example: whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/update/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/software/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y Or: distribution.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y update.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y software.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y Would be a heck of a lot easier to remember and setup for all of us. Is this worthy of a bugzilla entry? Stan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
S Glasoe schrieb:
Felix is right about the directory tree not making sense. The updates are not in the same path as the distribution. Why? Consistency throughout would be greatly appreciated. Please consider that having the /update and /distribution and the additional repositories such as software.opensuse.org/download/KDE: in a logical, easy to follow order would make openSUSE a lot easier to use.
For example: whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/update/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/software/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y
Or: distribution.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y update.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y software.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y
Would be a heck of a lot easier to remember and setup for all of us. Is this worthy of a bugzilla entry?
You're talking about something completely different than Felix here. You want the update tree to be moved from ftp.suse.com to ftp.opensuse.org. This has been discussed, and as you can see, it has not been done. I don't know why, but it does not break anything as-is, worked without even the slightest valid problems (I mean real problems, not just complaints as in "It's so hard for me to find it") since the first "open" SUSE release (10.0) and I really wonder why this should be important because users get both the update sources and the base installation sources offered during installation. Having said that, why not discuss it again (which doesn't mean that the result of the second discussion will be different from the result of the first one), but not under any circumstances will the update trees of released distribution be moved. This would cause major troubles for all users and benefit just those who don't want to follow the mirror lists in our wikis. Note that the current rationale is not "everything from the same distribution together", but "update trees together" and "release trees together". This reflects the fact that the update trees are always in flux while the release trees never change; an important difference for mirrors because some mirrors prefer to have only stable content (=the release trees) and others prefer having only the smaller things (=the update trees). --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 21, 2006 at 10:36:04AM -0600, S Glasoe wrote:
On Thursday 21 December 2006 10:00, Felix Miata wrote:
This: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/update/10.2/
Should be: http://ftp.suse.com/pub/opensuse/update/10.2/
Because: http://ftp.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/10.2/
Felix is right about the directory tree not making sense. The updates are not in the same path as the distribution. Why? Consistency throughout would be greatly appreciated. Please consider that having the /update and /distribution and the additional repositories such as software.opensuse.org/download/KDE: in a logical, easy to follow order would make openSUSE a lot easier to use.
For example: whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/distribution/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/update/xx.y whatever.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/software/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y
Or: distribution.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y update.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/xx.y software.opensuse.org/pub/opensuse/KDE:/KDE3/xx.y
Would be a heck of a lot easier to remember and setup for all of us. Is this worthy of a bugzilla entry?
Its just something historical which we did not adjust yet. We can and likely will do it for 10.3. Ciao, Marcus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Hanke -
Eberhard Moenkeberg -
Felix Miata -
Kenneth Schneider -
Marcus Meissner -
S Glasoe