[opensuse-factory] kdm default config is really bad
Hi, I wonder if this is a bug or a feature but I have several problems with kdm's default appearance. 1. There is no more field to type the user name. Only a huge horizontal list where it's really hard to find the user. Scrolling through the whole list is a pain. Morover it does not show the user names but only /etc/passwd's comment field. Stu 2. ctrl-alt-delete does not work anymore. 3. Generally it's hard or at least not obvious how to use the whole thing without mouse. 4. If you click on something like reboot then crazy animated confirmation dialog starts. It makes me really dizzy. I've also tested other displaymanagers but most of them don't have just two simple fields (user/password) both visible at the same time. What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally. You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture. And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm? A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-) We do install sddm by default on a fresh KDE installation since the switch to Plasma5 over a year ago (kdm has been dropped ustream, it was/is actually part of the KDE4 desktop and it was found unfeasible to port it to Qt5 and later Wayland...) You may try a different theme, 4 others are included. But the default breeze theme will change completely in Plasma 5.8 anyway. Or switch to kdm, it is still included, you just have to install it manually and set it in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager. ;) Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:07:48 BST Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-) Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
We do install sddm by default on a fresh KDE installation since the switch to Plasma5 over a year ago (kdm has been dropped ustream, it was/is actually part of the KDE4 desktop and it was found unfeasible to port it to Qt5 and later Wayland...) You may try a different theme, 4 others are included. But the default breeze theme will change completely in Plasma 5.8 anyway.
Or switch to kdm, it is still included, you just have to install it manually and set it in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager. ;)
Kind Regards, Wolfgang
-- Qt: 5.6.1 KDE Frameworks: 5.25.0 kf5-config: 1.0 KDE Plasma: 5.7.3 Kernel: 4.7.0-2-default "openSUSE Tumbleweed (20160813) (x86_64)" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 19:19:00 CEST ianseeks wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:07:48 BST Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
man sddm.conf: MinimumUid= Minimum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 1000. MaximumUid= Maximum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 60000 HideUsers= Comma-separated list of Users that shouldn't show up in the user list. Default value is empty. Kind regards, Stefan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Brüns, Stefan composed on 2016-08-16 18:39 (UTC):
ianseeks wrote:
Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
man sddm.conf:
MinimumUid= Minimum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 1000.
MaximumUid= Maximum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 60000
HideUsers= Comma-separated list of Users that shouldn't show up in the user list. Default value is empty.
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's) specifying selected users: SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Felix Miata
Brüns, Stefan composed on 2016-08-16 18:39 (UTC):
ianseeks wrote:
Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
man sddm.conf:
MinimumUid= Minimum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 1000.
MaximumUid= Maximum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 60000
HideUsers= Comma-separated list of Users that shouldn't show up in the user list. Default value is empty.
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's) specifying selected users:
SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2016-08-16 15:06 (UTC-0400):
* Felix Miata composed:
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's) specifying selected users:
SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :)
New users sure. Old users in a LAN dependent on NFS, how? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 16 August 2016, Felix Miata wrote:
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2016-08-16 15:06 (UTC-0400):
* Felix Miata composed:
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's) specifying selected users:
SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :)
New users sure. Old users in a LAN dependent on NFS, how?
BTW sddm is also stupid and still shows disabled users too. It's shows everybody who ever worked in our company ... Another thing. If you network/NIS does not work during boot-up then it shows no users. Regardless if NIS comes back to life. That's real fun without user text field. Surely, sddm developers have only single user systems in their mind. sddm is the worst choice for a distro's default display manager. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 23:59:54 CEST Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 16 August 2016, Felix Miata wrote:
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2016-08-16 15:06 (UTC-0400):
* Felix Miata composed:
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's)
specifying selected users: SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :)
New users sure. Old users in a LAN dependent on NFS, how?
BTW sddm is also stupid and still shows disabled users too. It's shows everybody who ever worked in our company ...
Another thing. If you network/NIS does not work during boot-up then it shows no users. Regardless if NIS comes back to life. That's real fun without user text field.
Surely, sddm developers have only single user systems in their mind. sddm is the worst choice for a distro's default display manager.
cu, Rudi
If you are so reliant on some feature, why don't you write a bug report or feature request, or even better, pay someone who implements this feature you need? BTW, you can just select a different theme and get a text field. But that would require you did a little bit of research, and would deny you the chance for a fine rant, heh? If its up to the choice between KDM (which has been abandoned by its developers for a good reason, I have contributed to its code myself) and SDDM, I sure will go for SDDM. Kind regards, Stefan -- Stefan Brüns / Bergstraße 21 / 52062 Aachen home: +49 241 53809034 mobile: +49 151 50412019 work: +49 2405 49936-424 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 17 August 2016, Stefan Bruens wrote:
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 23:59:54 CEST Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 16 August 2016, Felix Miata wrote:
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2016-08-16 15:06 (UTC-0400):
* Felix Miata composed:
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's)
specifying selected users: SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :)
New users sure. Old users in a LAN dependent on NFS, how?
BTW sddm is also stupid and still shows disabled users too. It's shows everybody who ever worked in our company ...
Another thing. If you network/NIS does not work during boot-up then it shows no users. Regardless if NIS comes back to life. That's real fun without user text field.
Surely, sddm developers have only single user systems in their mind. sddm is the worst choice for a distro's default display manager.
cu, Rudi
If you are so reliant on some feature, why don't you write a bug report or feature request, or even better, pay someone who implements this feature you need?
All features exist in existing display managers ... I still don't get it how it could happen that such an annoying thing made it into openSUSE default installation. Bug report is here now https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994205 Feature request would be "Please don't fuck up things which are perfect already". I think this is to trivial to post.
BTW, you can just select a different theme and get a text field. But that would require you did a little bit of research, and would deny you the chance for a fine rant, heh?
Surely I'm able to configure whatever I want. So far I've never needed to configure such boring things like displaymanagers. It's just annoying to get such unusable default config.
If its up to the choice between KDM (which has been abandoned by its developers for a good reason, I have contributed to its code myself) and SDDM, I sure will go for SDDM.
Actually in our office nobody is using kde>3. But kdm was always nice to use for simple login and selecting non-KDE WMs. I don't need more but I don't want less. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/18/2016 08:12 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Wednesday 17 August 2016, Stefan Bruens wrote:
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 23:59:54 CEST Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 16 August 2016, Felix Miata wrote:
Patrick Shanahan composed on 2016-08-16 15:06 (UTC-0400):
* Felix Miata composed:
Specifying ranges is not equivalent to (KDM's, KDM3's, TDM's)
specifying selected users: SelectedUsers=myuser107,hisuser1266,heruser2030,otheruser315
or one could make the desired users id's fit a range and then specify that range :)
New users sure. Old users in a LAN dependent on NFS, how?
BTW sddm is also stupid and still shows disabled users too. It's shows everybody who ever worked in our company ...
Another thing. If you network/NIS does not work during boot-up then it shows no users. Regardless if NIS comes back to life. That's real fun without user text field.
Surely, sddm developers have only single user systems in their mind. sddm is the worst choice for a distro's default display manager.
cu, Rudi
If you are so reliant on some feature, why don't you write a bug report or feature request, or even better, pay someone who implements this feature you need?
All features exist in existing display managers ... I still don't get it how it could happen that such an annoying thing made it into openSUSE default installation.
Bug report is here now https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994205
Feature request would be "Please don't fuck up things which are perfect already". I think this is to trivial to post.
BTW, you can just select a different theme and get a text field. But that would require you did a little bit of research, and would deny you the chance for a fine rant, heh?
Surely I'm able to configure whatever I want. So far I've never needed to configure such boring things like displaymanagers. It's just annoying to get such unusable default config.
It seems that your bug / issue is more related to kde then openSUSE, when you select the kde radio button you are getting the officially supported display manager for the kde desktop, to me this is sane and makes sense, if it doesn't work as you would like then thats really a kde issue for the kde bugtracker. If you select one of the lighter desktops in the openSUSE installer you will get the lightdm display manager rather then kdm or sddm in fact the only time you get sddm by default, is when you select the kde box in the installer. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adeliade Australia, UTC+9:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
Simon Lees schrieb:
On 08/18/2016 08:12 AM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Wednesday 17 August 2016, Stefan Bruens wrote: [...] Bug report is here now https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=994205
Feature request would be "Please don't fuck up things which are perfect already". I think this is to trivial to post.
BTW, you can just select a different theme and get a text field. But that would require you did a little bit of research, and would deny you the chance for a fine rant, heh?
Surely I'm able to configure whatever I want. So far I've never needed to configure such boring things like displaymanagers. It's just annoying to get such unusable default config.
It seems that your bug / issue is more related to kde then openSUSE, when you select the kde radio button you are getting the officially supported display manager for the kde desktop, to me this is sane and makes sense, if it doesn't work as you would like then thats really a kde issue for the kde bugtracker.
Again depends on whether we talk about TW or Leap here. For TW what you said might apply. For Leap however I disagree. IMO the choices we offer in the installation are like a recommendation. The default should be what we can recommend without hesitation. If the default and the prominent choices we offer don't meet certain quality expectations it's also our problem and our reputation at stake. I do share Rudi's concerns about SDDM. It is especially annoying that we had fixed the broken multi user support and even have an openQA test for it. Yet the patch got lost in some update. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 14:12:03 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
It is especially annoying that we had fixed the broken multi user support and even have an openQA test for it. Yet the patch got lost in some update.
That patch got removed because it is not necessary any more with upstream KDE's new sddm theme that got introduced in Plasma 5.7 Beta. The KDE developers decided to revert to the old theme though after negative feedback about the new one in 5.7 Beta, and decided to delay the change to 5.8 to have more time to improve things. Unfortunately we forgot to re-add the patch in openSUSE for 5.7.0 final. That has been rectified two weeks ago though, see https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/416440 It just hasn't been forwarded to 42.2 yet... The plan is to ship with Plasma 5.8 anyway though, upstream KDE even adjusted their release schedule for that: https://mail.kde.org/pipermail/plasma-devel/2016-August/057731.html Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 14:49:14 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:
That has been rectified two weeks ago though, see https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/416440 It just hasn't been forwarded to 42.2 yet...
Actually it has been forwarded, sorry: https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/417790 Is there really still a problem in this regard? Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer schrieb:
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 14:49:14 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:
That has been rectified two weeks ago though, see https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/416440 It just hasn't been forwarded to 42.2 yet...
Actually it has been forwarded, sorry: https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/417790
Is there really still a problem in this regard?
It was the first thing I noticed when I gave KDE a test in 42.2. So first impression wasn't that good for me :-) I didn't check whether it's fixed meanwhile. The openQA test is red for a different reason. The KDE desktop lacks the desktop folder in the openQA test where it boots a hard disk image so openQA can't proceed: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/245002 The test that created the hard disk image does show the desktop folder before it shuts down: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/244969 cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 16:45:29 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
I didn't check whether it's fixed meanwhile. The openQA test is red for a different reason. The KDE desktop lacks the desktop folder in the openQA test where it boots a hard disk image so openQA can't proceed: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/245002
Hm. AFAIK the fixes for this should be in 5.7.2 already too. I cannot reproduce it anymore here with the latest packages from the devel project (which is 5.7.3 now), though I was able to reproduce it reliably with earlier versions. But it was a timing problem, so not reliably reproducable on every system. If this problem still exists in 42.2, it should get fixed by the update to 5.7.3 or later I hope. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Wolfgang Bauer schrieb:
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 16:45:29 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
I didn't check whether it's fixed meanwhile. The openQA test is red for a different reason. The KDE desktop lacks the desktop folder in the openQA test where it boots a hard disk image so openQA can't proceed: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/245002
Hm. AFAIK the fixes for this should be in 5.7.2 already too.
I cannot reproduce it anymore here with the latest packages from the devel project (which is 5.7.3 now), though I was able to reproduce it reliably with earlier versions.
But it was a timing problem, so not reliably reproducable on every system.
If this problem still exists in 42.2, it should get fixed by the update to 5.7.3 or later I hope.
Who is in charge of submitting it? plasma5-desktop is still at 5.7.2 in 42.2 after todays checkin round. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Montag, 22. August 2016, 14:16:47 schrieb Ludwig Nussel:
Who is in charge of submitting it? plasma5-desktop is still at 5.7.2 in 42.2 after todays checkin round.
As you may have noticed, sumski submitted the update to the current 5.7.3 4 hours ago. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 00:42:15 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
Actually in our office nobody is using kde>3.
I'm just wondering why you do a KDE (5) installation then? As has been pointed out already, sddm is only installed by default if you do a fresh installation and select to install "KDE". Granted, that's the default selection, but there's a prominent screen in the installer to change that. And just to mention: we don't even replace kdm with sddm during upgrades.
But kdm was always nice to use for simple login and selecting non-KDE WMs. I don't need more but I don't want less.
Then use kdm if you prefer it, as has been written already. It's still included in the distribution. Or lightdm. Even kdm3 is still there in Tumbleweed at least, and is available for Leap too in the KDE:KDE3 repo (Leap doesn't come with KDE3 any more at all, it doesn't even have Qt3 in the standard repos IIANM). Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 18 August 2016, Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 00:42:15 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
Actually in our office nobody is using kde>3.
I'm just wondering why you do a KDE (5) installation then?
Why not? Some user may want to try it. Who knows. There are certain useful KDE programs to be used on other WMs. KDE installation just installs them all.
As has been pointed out already, sddm is only installed by default if you do a fresh installation and select to install "KDE".
Even I've tested, you also get it after minimal Installation and later zypper in patterns-openSUSE-kde
Granted, that's the default selection, but there's a prominent screen in the installer to change that.
Err, thiss is what the bug report is about. Why we get such terrible thing by _default_. Please choose a better default which is working for more use cases and does not remove fundamental features which we've had since 15 years on any suse default installation. That's all.
And just to mention: we don't even replace kdm with sddm during upgrades.
But kdm was always nice to use for simple login and selecting non-KDE WMs. I don't need more but I don't want less.
Then use kdm if you prefer it, as has been written already. It's still included in the distribution.
Or lightdm.
Even kdm3 is still there in Tumbleweed at least, and is available for Leap too in the KDE:KDE3 repo (Leap doesn't come with KDE3 any more at all, it doesn't even have Qt3 in the standard repos IIANM).
Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag, 18. August 2016, 12:39:39 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
Why not? Some user may want to try it. Who knows. There are certain useful KDE programs to be used on other WMs. KDE installation just installs them all.
So? You can just start from a different one too. And as you apparently want to install more than KDE, you have to adjust the installation proposal anyway. This is what patterns are for.
Even I've tested, you also get it after minimal Installation and later zypper in patterns-openSUSE-kde
You'll get it installed, but it won't be set as the system default displaymanager automatically AFAIK (we even have a bug report about that...).
Granted, that's the default selection, but there's a prominent screen in the installer to change that.
Err, thiss is what the bug report is about.
Err, AIUI the bug report is about replacing SDDM with something else. And that's not even a valid bug report IMHO. I think it doesn't make much sense to change a default just because someone doesn't like it and files a bug report to change it. Just an example: What if somebody doesn't like Firefox (whatever the reasons, or how valid they are), and files a bug report to use (say) Chromium by default? Should it be changed? And what if somebody else then files a bug report because Firefox is not the default browser any more? Should it be changed back? That just doesn't work out. And that KDE is selected by default has been a community decision years ago, that decision has not even be made by the KDE team. If you want this to be changed, you should better open a feature request at openfate.
Why we get such terrible thing by _default_.
Because it is maintained upstream (unlike kdm), and it has been chosen as recommended display manager by the KDE developers. Therefore it has some integration with KDE's desktop (the default theme and the configuration module in KDE's systemsettings) So the openSUSE KDE team decided to use it as default for KDE too. As I hope you understand, it wasn't desirable to use an abandoned/unmaintained/dead one (the last and final release was a year ago).as default either.
Please choose a better default which is working for more use cases and does not remove fundamental features which we've had since 15 years on any suse default installation. That's all.
IIRC, you haven't actually mentioned any "fundamental features" that you miss. And no, I don't consider "Ctrl+Alt+Del opens the shutdown dialog" a fundamental feature that every display manager is required to have. That's just a side-note though. At least some of the points you mentioned in the original mail (and the bug report) are related to the theme though, and as I mentioned this is being replaced with a completely new one in Plasma 5.8 anyway. Yes, it is known and clear that sddm doesn't offer all the features kdm has (or even other ones have), that's one of the reasons why we still offer kdm and don't replace it on existing installations. But OTOH, not everyone needs those missing features either. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thursday 18 August 2016, Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Just an example: What if somebody doesn't like Firefox (whatever the reasons, or how valid they are), and files a bug report to use (say) Chromium by default? Should it be changed?
In this case it's like you _have_ already changed the default to Chromium (because, say, it's recommended by wayland developers). I would like to get Firefox back. And you are telling me to go to Chromium upstream and report bugs. Or just install Firefox by yourself. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:12:36 +0200
Ruediger Meier
On Thursday 18 August 2016, Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Just an example: What if somebody doesn't like Firefox (whatever the reasons, or how valid they are), and files a bug report to use (say) Chromium by default? Should it be changed?
In this case it's like you _have_ already changed the default to Chromium (because, say, it's recommended by wayland developers). I would like to get Firefox back. And you are telling me to go to Chromium upstream and report bugs. Or just install Firefox by yourself.
No, in this case it is like if we use X years ago netscape navigator and you object to change it to firefox when netscape development stopped. So there is reason to change default, I am not against discussing defaults, but we usually follow upstream, so if KDE decide to use as default sddm, we will follow it unless we have good reason. There is no option to keep using no longer developed code unless someone with strong interested step into it and continue maintenance and development. Josef
cu, Rudi
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On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:39:19 BST Brüns, Stefan wrote:
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 19:19:00 CEST ianseeks wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:07:48 BST Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
man sddm.conf:
MinimumUid= Minimum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 1000.
MaximumUid= Maximum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 60000
HideUsers= Comma-separated list of Users that shouldn't show up in the user list. Default value is empty. Thanks, its configured through systemsettings on KDM, any idea if its going to be done the same way in systemsettings5 at any point in the future? I don't really want to be manually editting config files.
Kind regards,
Stefan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Qt: 5.6.1 KDE Frameworks: 5.25.0 kf5-config: 1.0 KDE Plasma: 5.7.3 Kernel: 4.7.0-2-default "openSUSE Tumbleweed (20160815) (x86_64)" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 22:13:26 CEST ianseeks wrote:
Thanks, its configured through systemsettings on KDM, any idea if its going to be done the same way in systemsettings5 at any point in the future? I don't really want to be manually editting config files.
Do you have kcm_sddm installed? Currently you can configure Min/MaxUID, HideUsers seems to be missing in the UI. Kind regards, Stefan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 21:50:11 BST Brüns, Stefan wrote:
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 22:13:26 CEST ianseeks wrote:
Thanks, its configured through systemsettings on KDM, any idea if its going to be done the same way in systemsettings5 at any point in the future? I don't really want to be manually editting config files.
Do you have kcm_sddm installed?
Currently you can configure Min/MaxUID, HideUsers seems to be missing in the UI. No, i gave up on sddm a long time ago and never revisited it to see if it suits me better.
Kind regards,
Stefan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- Qt: 5.6.1 KDE Frameworks: 5.25.0 kf5-config: 1.0 KDE Plasma: 5.7.3 Kernel: 4.7.0-2-default "openSUSE Tumbleweed (20160815) (x86_64)" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/16/2016 02:39 PM, Brüns, Stefan wrote:
On Dienstag, 16. August 2016 19:19:00 CEST ianseeks wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 August 2016 18:07:48 BST Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
Is SDDM going to be developed with more configuration options? I like the ability in KDM to specify who appears on the login screen, just wondered if SDDM will ever have that option?
man sddm.conf:
MinimumUid= Minimum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 1000.
MaximumUid= Maximum user id of the users to be listed in the user interface. Default value is 60000
HideUsers= Comma-separated list of Users that shouldn't show up in the user list. Default value is empty.
Kind regards,
Stefan-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
I think he meant an expanded gui as in kdm. Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 16 August 2016, Wolfgang Bauer wrote:
Am Dienstag, 16. August 2016, 17:02:09 schrieb Ruediger Meier:
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
kdm (or its included themes) have not been changed, at least not intentionally.
You are talking about Tumbleweed, right? In Leap 42.1 at least it looks like ever, just with a different background picture.
It is a Leap 42.1 kde installation.
And, are you sure that you are actually using kdm?
A *horizontal* user list rather sounds like sddm to me. ;-)
WTF, you are right, it's sddm.
We do install sddm by default on a fresh KDE installation since the switch to Plasma5 over a year ago (kdm has been dropped ustream, it was/is actually part of the KDE4 desktop and it was found unfeasible to port it to Qt5 and later Wayland...) You may try a different theme, 4 others are included. But the default breeze theme will change completely in Plasma 5.8 anyway.
Or switch to kdm, it is still included, you just have to install it manually and set it in /etc/sysconfig/displaymanager. ;)
But why you switched to such an annoying sddm rather that just using kdm?
Kind Regards, Wolfgang
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Ruediger Meier composed on 2016-08-16 17:02 (UTC+0200):
I wonder if this is a bug or a feature but I have several problems with kdm's default appearance.
1. There is no more field to type the user name. Only a huge horizontal list where it's really hard to find the user. Scrolling through the whole list is a pain. Morover it does not show the user names but only /etc/passwd's comment field. Stu
2. ctrl-alt-delete does not work anymore.
In which context? I've not tried it in many moons. Are you maybe thinking of Ctrl-Alt-BS?
3. Generally it's hard or at least not obvious how to use the whole thing without mouse.
4. If you click on something like reboot then crazy animated confirmation dialog starts. It makes me really dizzy.
If you just want information at boot and shutdown time you can disable the GUI silliness by uninstalling Plymouth. Before you do that, try booting with splash=silent and quiet removed from the Grub stanza.
I've also tested other displaymanagers but most of them don't have just two simple fields (user/password) both visible at the same time.
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
Assuming you really have KDM installed rather than one of those younger feature-deficient DMs, a very simple edit to kdmrc will restore the original default look, which was configured away via theming for too many years to remember. Just set UseTheme=false, but to ensure, just below it, you can additionally set Theme= or comment the Theme= line. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 08/16/2016 12:44 PM, Felix Miata wrote:
Ruediger Meier composed on 2016-08-16 17:02 (UTC+0200):
I wonder if this is a bug or a feature but I have several problems with kdm's default appearance.
1. There is no more field to type the user name. Only a huge horizontal list where it's really hard to find the user. Scrolling through the whole list is a pain. Morover it does not show the user names but only /etc/passwd's comment field. Stu
2. ctrl-alt-delete does not work anymore.
In which context? I've not tried it in many moons. Are you maybe thinking of Ctrl-Alt-BS?
3. Generally it's hard or at least not obvious how to use the whole thing without mouse.
4. If you click on something like reboot then crazy animated confirmation dialog starts. It makes me really dizzy.
If you just want information at boot and shutdown time you can disable the GUI silliness by uninstalling Plymouth. Before you do that, try booting with splash=silent and quiet removed from the Grub stanza.
I've also tested other displaymanagers but most of them don't have just two simple fields (user/password) both visible at the same time.
What was wrong with suse's kdm like it looked like at least for 10 years from 8.0 - 13.1? Why was it changed that way?
Assuming you really have KDM installed rather than one of those younger feature-deficient DMs, a very simple edit to kdmrc will restore the original default look, which was configured away via theming for too many years to remember. Just set UseTheme=false, but to ensure, just below it, you can additionally set Theme= or comment the Theme= line. I've noticed that people have also switched to lightdm.
Cheers! Roman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
-
Brüns, Stefan -
Felix Miata -
ianseeks -
Josef Reidinger -
Ludwig Nussel -
Patrick Shanahan -
Roman Bysh -
Ruediger Meier -
Simon Lees -
Stefan Bruens
-
Wolfgang Bauer