On Tue, 21 Mar 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Andreas Vetter writes:

...

Hi,

I just tried to install as many packages as possible and found something very annoying: Conflicts are only shown one at a time. You can not solve several conflicts at a time like before.

Should I file a bug or is this intended behaviour?

Please file a bug,

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=159673 -- Andreas Vetter

I chose to install xmms with yast sw (beta8) - apparently xmms depends on xmms-lib which is also installed. This is all very nice - except in earlier versions of SL you would be informed of dependencies before they're installed - enabling you to change your mind - or at least know what's going on before it's too late.

Is this behaviour a bug or is it intended? - that dependencies are installed automatically without "consulting" the user beforehand.

I prefer the old way. Though I'm aware that some users panic when yast asks them any questions whatsoever.

Of course in the xmms case it's not important - but if I (or some other user) were to by accident install some GNOME-package and thus installaing 100s of megs of dependencies without warning it would be a problem.

cb400f

+1, it's really scary if Gnome comes around for some packages cause ir takes (most of the time) hunderd(s) mb of space so I really want to change my mind then :P Azerion

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

Martin Schlander writes:

...

I chose to install xmms with yast sw (beta8) - apparently xmms depends on xmms-lib which is also installed. This is all very nice - except in earlier versions of SL you would be informed of dependencies before they're installed - enabling you to change your mind - or at least know what's going on before it's too late.

Is this behaviour a bug or is it intended? - that dependencies are installed automatically without "consulting" the user beforehand.

It will stay this way for 10.1.

...

I prefer the old way. Though I'm aware that some users panic when yast asks them any questions whatsoever.

Of course in the xmms case it's not important - but if I (or some other user) were to by accident install some GNOME-package and thus installaing 100s of megs of dependencies without warning it would be a problem.

I'd like to discuss this and similar issues once we have 10.1 out, so that we can plan on what to do for 10.2...

I agree to delay the discussion. But we should also discuss for SLES 10. -- Andreas Vetter Tel: +49 (0)931 888-5890 Fakultaet fuer Physik und Astronomie Fax: +49 (0)931 888-5508 Universitaet Wuerzburg

On 22 Mar 2006 at 9:50, Andreas Vetter wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Andreas Jaeger wrote: [...]

...

I'd like to discuss this and similar issues once we have 10.1 out, so that we can plan on what to do for 10.2...

I agree to delay the discussion. But we should also discuss for SLES 10.

Hi! I'd suggest not to release 10.1 unless ready. The damage of a bad release will chase away a lot of people from SuSE, and from Linux in general. The current state seems "alpha" to me: It's not clear what the final features should be, and it's still full with bugs. It would be a real surprise if all these bugs vanish automagically until release. Just my personal optinion. Regards, Ulrich

...

I chose to install xmms with yast sw (beta8) - apparently xmms depends on xmms-lib which is also installed. This is all very nice - except in earlier versions of SL you would be informed of dependencies before they're installed - enabling you to change your mind - or at least know what's going on before it's too late.

Is this behaviour a bug or is it intended? - that dependencies are installed automatically without "consulting" the user beforehand.

It will stay this way for 10.1.

It feels like it will stay that way because of to less development-time. The new engine would be *much* better with none but advantages. At this moment (beta8) it is -still- not working the way it should and this sound like an "and it won't be working for 100% in 10.1 cause we need all the time for making it work 80% so it can be used a bit".

I'd like to discuss this and similar issues once we have 10.1 out, so that we can plan on what to do for 10.2...

It is called an "issue" and so it seems to me. I know you guys work harder then many people on this planet, and I know complaining is cheap, but I really think ZEN should have never imported into 10.1. We have discussions about Mono/exe, the managers don't work well in beta8(!), and all this is related in my opinion to the fact that it came up around beta3...I said -beta- -3-, yes. Complaining is cheap, but maybe we as 'young' community with Novell-overrule can learn from this. ZEN is probably better then the other solutions. But after all, if there is to little time for developing it...it will be a pain in the ass.

Andreas

Azerion (positive about 10.1, but the new packagemanager-backend.........)

Fedora Core 5 is out and the first review is out, nice review....for Linux-experts. Every Windows-user will think twice or trice :D: http://lunapark6.com/?p=481 I hope SUSE won't have the same. "There was enough glitches in the second install, that I can say if you have a Nvidia card or a motherboard with the Nvidia nForce chipset, you should look elsewhere for a linux o.s. or be prepared to do a fair amount of tweaking." "Once the anaconda installer started to probe for my hardware, my screen turned into a jumbled screen of garbage." "A minor pain but I --manually-- added the other operating systems to the grub menu after the installation was complete." "These types of small quirks would definitely put off windows users trying out linux for the first time." "Something tells me Fedora could have gone through a longer test cycle to iron out these quirks,...." Especially the last one I really don't want to see. I want 10.1 out, I really do. When I got beta3 I thought that it would be out in a month or so. I was on the edge everytime to see new things and see the improvements, so I am not lay back about the release. But the problems have to be solved before 10.1 is released. Otherwise I really have a -1 for SUSE Linux, despite my 100% fan-status. Azerion (smiling that SUSE is not the only one with problems)

Azerion writes:

Especially the last one I really don't want to see. I want 10.1 out, I really

So do I ;-)

do. When I got beta3 I thought that it would be out in a month or so. I was on the edge everytime to see new things and see the improvements, so I am not lay back about the release. But the problems have to be solved before 10.1 is released. Otherwise I really have a -1 for SUSE Linux, despite my 100% fan-status.

I'm currently trying to get an overview of where we are with SUSE Linux 10.1. If you have issues that you consider real showstoppers, please tell them here publically - with bugzilla numbers if possible. I'll read everything but won't have time to comment on it in as much details as appropriate - but will look at them. The areas that are already on the top of my list and that I evaluate now are in a nutshell: * Handling of patches and packages in libzypp, yast, rug, zmd, zen-updater * media change * AddOn product handling (so that e.g. the binary CD will work)

Azerion (smiling that SUSE is not the only one with problems)

Yes, seems there's a virus out there ;-( Cheers, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@suse.de, http://www.suse.de/~aj/ SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 10:19:20PM +0100, Marcel Hilzinger wrote:

On Thu, Mar 23, 2006 at 09:46:25PM +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Azerion writes:

...

Especially the last one I really don't want to see. I want 10.1 out, I really

So do I ;-)

...

do. When I got beta3 I thought that it would be out in a month or so. I was on the edge everytime to see new things and see the improvements, so I am not lay back about the release. But the problems have to be solved before 10.1 is released. Otherwise I really have a -1 for SUSE Linux, despite my 100% fan-status.

I'm currently trying to get an overview of where we are with SUSE Linux 10.1. If you have issues that you consider real showstoppers, please tell them here publically - with bugzilla numbers if possible. I'll read everything but won't have time to comment on it in as much details as appropriate - but will look at them.

The areas that are already on the top of my list and that I evaluate now are in a nutshell: * Handling of patches and packages in libzypp, yast, rug, zmd, zen-updater I think most critical here is the online updater. I would be _very_ glad, if SUSEwatcher (or whatever) would still be there as a fallback solution.

In my opinion there should also still be a working fallback solution for the package-manager without zmd, as

Press F2 in the YAST2 Packager will get you the patch dialogue.

killall -9 zmd killall -9 system-update

Yeah.

rpm -Uvh *

susewatcher could actually still be used ... where it was before a thin wrapper around the "online_update" commandline tool, it could now be a thin wrapper around "rug". Just no one has time to do it. Ciao, Marcus

On Thursday 23 March 2006 21:46, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

I'm currently trying to get an overview of where we are with SUSE Linux 10.1. If you have issues that you consider real showstoppers, please tell them here publically - with bugzilla numbers if possible.

- Networkmanager unable to connect to unencrypted networks: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=158892 - Ressource consumption of the package manager: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=153708 I'd like to add to this that I just tried to add factory to rug: rug sa --type=yum http://mirrors.kernel.org/opensuse/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/s... factory The progress bar stopped at 33% - but my harddisk, cpu and ram (512 megs) consumption ran amok - using at a time all my 500 megs of swap - I powered off after 20 minutes as I couldn't get it to stop - not even ctrl+alt+backspace would do it. Am I the only one to experience something like this? Generally it seems to me that the packagemanager - whether using rug or yast is considerably slower and more ressource demanding than before - and it's not like it was blazingly fast then. Another thing is that I had already added factory as a yast installation source - but it does not show up in "rug service-list" as I believe it should. The urls for yast and rug seem to be different as rug needs the last /suse - I wonder if this has any relevance. cb400f

On Friday 24 March 2006 18:42, Azerion wrote:

Lot of work to go but I see that the last 3 days some things are going a lot faster then before...

Ok, maybe I should've mentioned that I'm still on beta8.. only updated the kernel - which was updated without warning as a dependency I assume - when I installed ndiswrapper-kmp ;) I'm sensitive to the logistic and financial issues Andreas mentioned in another thread. This is a very difficult situation. If 10.1 is shipped with a bunch of more or less troublesome bugs how many of these can be expected to be patched via updates? If a lot of these issues are expected to be patched up within the first couple of weeks after release this would relax me a lot. Maybe also the new release cycle should be reconsidered. If 10.1 is shipped in a rather buggy state - then 8 months is a long wait - maybe it should be considered going back to 6 months for 10.2 if 10.1 is not really up to par. cb400f

Hello,

I'd like to add to this that I just tried to add factory to rug:

rug sa --type=yum http://mirrors.kernel.org/opensuse/distribution/SL-OSS-factory/inst-source/s... factory

The progress bar stopped at 33% - but my harddisk, cpu and ram (512 megs) consumption ran amok - using at a time all my 500 megs of swap - I powered off after 20 minutes as I couldn't get it to stop - not even ctrl+alt+backspace would do it.

Actually, also here it stays at 33% for a long time -- until it has processed/downloaded all meta data (I have 1 GB RAM, which is almost completely used by zmd/rug and friends.).

The urls for yast and rug seem to be different as rug needs the last /suse - I wonder if this has any relevance.

Without /suse is the Yast package manager format (I think the format it is the same as with older SUSEs), with /suse it is the YUM format. I think Yast can also read Yum. I don't know whether zmd/rug can process the YaST package format... (I actually lost track at some point after 10.0beta.) Tobias