* İsmail Dönmez [01-02-20 10:17]:

On 02 Jan 10:12, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Dominique Leuenberger [01-02-20 02:03]:

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Please note that this mail was generated by a script. The described changes are computed based on the x86_64 DVD. The full online repo contains too many changes to be listed here.

Please check the known defects of this snapshot before upgrading: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/overview?distri=opensuse&groupid=1&version=Tumbleweed&build=20191231

why are some lang packages now required installs? especially *gtk3-lang*

lately *gtk3-lang* seems to be reinstalled after I remove it.

fwiw: I routinely remove *-lang* packages as I have no benefit there. and the *get3-lang* package is over-riding "--no-recommends".

maybe there are others but gtk3-lang is one I notice.

gtk3-lang is not recommended since some time: https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/746218 Something else is probably requiring it.

apparently not something that I have installed: *> rpm -q --whatrequires gtk3-lang no package requires gtk3-lang so why does it override "--no-requires"? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Andrei Borzenkov [01-02-20 12:48]: [...]

gtk3-lang Supplements installed locales so I would rather suspect

commit 1e6c8c2f0bad5ccc4b87a6205bdf95c09c31651e Author: Michael Andres Date: Fri Dec 7 10:31:30 2018 +0100

no-recommends: Nevertheless consider resolver namespaces (hardware,language,..supporting packages) (FATE#325513)

Technically those packages use (reverse-)recommends to express their support for installed hardware, languages or filesystems. Nevertheless they are important and the resolver still considers them even if `no-recommends` is set.

Consider:

bor@tw:~> sudo zypper rm gtk3-lang Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...

The following package is going to be REMOVED: gtk3-lang

1 package to remove. After the operation, 19.9 MiB will be freed. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): (1/1) Removing gtk3-lang-3.24.13+0-1.1.noarch ............................[done]

bor@tw:~> sudo zypper in libgtk-3-0 Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...

The following NEW package is going to be installed: gtk3-lang

The following package is going to be upgraded: libgtk-3-0

1 package to upgrade, 1 new. Overall download size: 0 B. Already cached: 5.0 MiB. After the operation, additional 19.9 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): n bor@tw:~> sudo zypper in --no-recommends libgtk-3-0 Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... Resolving package dependencies...

The following NEW package is going to be installed: gtk3-lang

The following package is going to be upgraded: libgtk-3-0

1 package to upgrade, 1 new. Overall download size: 0 B. Already cached: 5.0 MiB. After the operation, additional 19.9 MiB will be used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y):

tks for the explanation. I will block *that* lang package with a zypper lock. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [01-03-20 04:42]:

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On 02/01/2020 19.14, Patrick Shanahan wrote: | * Andrei Borzenkov <> [01-02-20 12:48]:

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|> |> The following NEW package is going to be installed: gtk3-lang |> |> The following package is going to be upgraded: libgtk-3-0 |> |> 1 package to upgrade, 1 new. Overall download size: 0 B. Already |> cached: 5.0 MiB. After the operation, additional 19.9 MiB will be |> used. Continue? [y/n/v/...? shows all options] (y): |> | | | tks for the explanation. I will block *that* lang package with a | zypper lock. |

That will damage the *English* translation. Look:

Telcontar:~ # rpm -ql gtk3-lang | grep "/en" /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo Telcontar:~ #

the "damage" is not apparent here. Either I do not use what is affected or the affection is not noted nor a problem. ... -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Carlos E. R. [01-03-20 21:20]:

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On 04/01/2020 01.09, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Carlos E. R. [01-03-20 04:42]:

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On 02/01/2020 19.14, Patrick Shanahan wrote: | * Andrei Borzenkov <> [01-02-20 12:48]:

...

...

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| tks for the explanation. I will block *that* lang package with a | zypper lock. |

That will damage the *English* translation. Look:

Telcontar:~ # rpm -ql gtk3-lang | grep "/en" /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en@shaw/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en_CA/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30-properties.mo /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo Telcontar:~ #

the "damage" is not apparent here. Either I do not use what is affected or the affection is not noted nor a problem. ...

Or your eyesight is not good enough :-P :-D

well, then I spent way toooo much getting both lenses replaced with lazer surgery and much less correction in my new glasses :) -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Malcolm [01-02-20 10:43]:

On Thu 02 Jan 2020 10:12:06 AM CST, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

fwiw: I routinely remove *-lang* packages as I have no benefit there. and the *get3-lang* package is over-riding "--no-recommends".

Hi I use (Thank you DimStar);

rpm -qa *lang --qf "%{name}\n" |xargs zypper rm -u

but not usable here: The following 4 packages are going to be REMOVED: clang clang9 libLTO9 libstdc++-devel not desired

zypper al *-lang

yes obvious solution but should not be necessary if no *-lang* packages are required as it should never override "--no-recommends". tks -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Malcolm [01-02-20 11:52]:

On Thu 02 Jan 2020 11:05:19 AM CST, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

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* Malcolm [01-02-20 10:43]:

...

On Thu 02 Jan 2020 10:12:06 AM CST, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

fwiw: I routinely remove *-lang* packages as I have no benefit there. and the *get3-lang* package is over-riding "--no-recommends".

Hi I use (Thank you DimStar);

rpm -qa *lang --qf "%{name}\n" |xargs zypper rm -u

but not usable here: The following 4 packages are going to be REMOVED: clang clang9 libLTO9 libstdc++-devel not desired

...

zypper al *-lang

yes obvious solution but should not be necessary if no *-lang* packages are required as it should never override "--no-recommends".

tks Hi I have those packages installed as well... no issues with removal of just the lang ones.

do you mean you do not need "clang clang9 libLTO9 libstdc++-devel", or that the script does not offer to remove them? I have no problem with removing any *-lang* packages but I have a need for "clang*". at any rate, the jumping thru hoops should not be necessary. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet freenode -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 02 Jan 2020, 16:43:24 +0100, Malcolm wrote:

On Thu 02 Jan 2020 10:12:06 AM CST, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

fwiw: I routinely remove *-lang* packages as I have no benefit there. and the *get3-lang* package is over-riding "--no-recommends".

Hi I use (Thank you DimStar);

rpm -qa *lang --qf "%{name}\n" |xargs zypper rm -u

of course, that command should look like rpm -qa *-lang --qf "%{name}\n" |xargs zypper rm -u Notice the "-" in between * and lang ;)

zypper al *-lang

Cheers. l8er manfred

Patrick Shanahan schrieb:

* Dominique Leuenberger [01-02-20 02:03]:

...

Please note that this mail was generated by a script. The described changes are computed based on the x86_64 DVD. The full online repo contains too many changes to be listed here.

Please check the known defects of this snapshot before upgrading: https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/overview?distri=opensuse&groupid=1&version=Tumbleweed&build=20191231

why are some lang packages now required installs? especially *gtk3-lang*

lately *gtk3-lang* seems to be reinstalled after I remove it.

fwiw: I routinely remove *-lang* packages as I have no benefit there. and the *get3-lang* package is over-riding "--no-recommends".

maybe there are others but gtk3-lang is one I notice.

does this need a bug report?

gtk3-lang gets installed due to locale supplements generated by the translations it ships. It also supplements the en locale so that's why it gets installed always. Looks like gtk3 (ab)uses gettext to assign speaking names to keyboard buttons: $ msgunfmt /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo|grep -1 KP_Right msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "KP_Right" msgstr "Right (keypad)" So not installing gtk3-lang actually breaks gtk3 in a sense. The right fix seems to be upstream changing their approach. Alternatively the gtk3 package could ship the en "translation" in the main package rather than gtk3-lang. It's not really a translation after all. In any case a bug IMO. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Software Solutions Germany GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer HRB 36809 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 03/01/2020 10.59, Yamaban wrote: | On Fri, 3 Jan 2020 10:21, Ludwig Nussel wrote: |> Patrick Shanahan schrieb: |>> * Dominique Leuenberger [01-02-20 02:03]: ... |> gtk3-lang gets installed due to locale supplements generated by |> the translations it ships. It also supplements the en locale so |> that's why it gets installed always. Looks like gtk3 (ab)uses |> gettext to assign speaking names to keyboard buttons: |> |> $ msgunfmt /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo|grep -1 |> KP_Right msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "KP_Right" msgstr "Right |> (keypad)" |> |> So not installing gtk3-lang actually breaks gtk3 in a sense. The |> right fix seems to be upstream changing their approach. |> Alternatively the gtk3 package could ship the en "translation" |> in the main package rather than gtk3-lang. It's not really a |> translation after all. In any case a bug IMO. | | DAFQ! 1. Clean, long-term solution has to happen upstream, no | question about that. (Teach the meaning of LANG="C" as lang | variant.) | | 2. Short-term (as in: NOW) would be moving the "en" translation to | the main package as a "replacement" for a not-really compiled-in | "C" lang. | | How to get this started ASAP? Maybe even pressing it into SLE, but | tbh, imho this is a "must have" / "release break" feature for even | LEAP 15.2? | | Happy new year anyway, thanks for the good work in discovering the | root cause here. I suspect they are doing this intentionally (since 2005). Pick a few strings: | msgunfmt /usr/share/locale/en/LC_MESSAGES/gtk30.mo | less msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioLowerVolume" msgstr "Audio lower volume" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioMedia" msgstr "Audio media" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioMute" msgstr "Audio mute" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioNext" msgstr "Audio next" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioPause" msgstr "Audio pause" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioPlay" msgstr "Audio play" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioPrev" msgstr "Audio previous" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioRaiseVolume" msgstr "Audio raise volume" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioRecord" msgstr "Audio record" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioRewind" msgstr "Audio rewind" msgctxt "keyboard label" msgid "AudioStop" msgstr "Audio stop" I suspect you could find software where the default language is not English, because the programmer is Spanish or Russian, say (I would be tempted to do it :-p ). The external translation file to English would be required. So removing from the system -lang files "just because" could be dangerous. Thus first run: rpm -ql whatever-lang | grep "/en" to find out if an English translation does exist. Then use msgunfmt to find out what those strings are. In this case, there are also Canadian and British variants (the CA one is obsolete, by the way, probably not operative). The rationale here (I'm guessing) is that instead of writing the messages in the source code, they write labels to them, and the messages are external. Prior to gettext one technique programmers used would put languages in arrays, loaded at the start of the program from resource files (this is what I did), indexed by tokens. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCXg94lwAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1cstAJ4tvvKg2MVbHX5EeXNsqeaMHNpbsACcCPQtepQaw9BbZq8MKfItYoEb2QU= =fylp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org