[opensuse-factory] About JRE 1.8 [Was: Focusing on OpenJDK - Sun/Oracle JDK will not be in 12.1 (fwd)]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have a doubt about this. On Thursday, 2011-09-01 at 10:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote here: +++-------------------------- Subject: [opensuse-factory] Focusing on OpenJDK - Sun/Oracle JDK will not be in 12.1 Up to now, openSUSE users had the choice of using openJDK (GPL with classpath exceptions) or Sun/Oracle's Java. The Sun/Oracle Java was licensed under the "Distributor's License for Java (DLJ)", which allowed Linux distributors to package and redistribute Sun/Oracle Java. Recently, Oracle announced [1] that openJDK 7 is the new official reference implementation for Java SE7. They no longer see the need for the DLJ licensed Java implementation and so have retired that license. openSUSE chooses to proceed with distributing the GPL licensed official reference implementation, openJDK. We will no longer distribute newer versions or updates of the now proprietary licensed Sun/Oracle JDK. Existing installations of the Sun/Oracle JDK are still licensed under the now retired DLJ. openSUSE users who wish to continue using the Sun/Oracle JDK (including new versions thereof and updates) should now download directly from http://www.oracle.com/java. For now we keep the current sun-java packages (under the DLJ license) in the Java:sun:Factory project and will not update them anymore. I suggest to document in the openSUSE wiki how to install the Sun/Oracle JDK version from Oracle under openSUSE. Andreas - --------------------------++- I just looked at the description in the "jre1.8.0_60" rpm from Oracle, while installing it. It says: +++-------------------------- jre1.8.0_60 - Java Platform Standard Edition Runtime Environment The Java Platform Standard Edition Runtime Environment (JRE) contains everything necessary to run applets and applications designed for the Java platform. This includes the Java virtual machine, plus the Java platform classes and supporting files. The JRE is freely redistributable, per the terms of the included license. - --------------------------++- My question is: Is still true that openSUSE can not distribute Oracle JRE, or can it be done? Perhaps the issue is that they want the rpm to be redistributed without modification, whereas it needs to be changed to adapt file locations and links :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlYnwZ8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VdKACcDRTN11mJPznjA7CLHohDAbUp LBwAoIkZdVu7x4SbzPwI+fgnn9OObjqG =/gAZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
21.10.2015 19:47, Carlos E. R. пишет:
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I have a doubt about this.
On Thursday, 2011-09-01 at 10:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote here:
+++-------------------------- Subject: [opensuse-factory] Focusing on OpenJDK - Sun/Oracle JDK will not be in 12.1
Up to now, openSUSE users had the choice of using openJDK (GPL with classpath exceptions) or Sun/Oracle's Java. The Sun/Oracle Java was licensed under the "Distributor's License for Java (DLJ)", which allowed Linux distributors to package and redistribute Sun/Oracle Java. Recently, Oracle announced [1] that openJDK 7 is the new official reference implementation for Java SE7. They no longer see the need for the DLJ licensed Java implementation and so have retired that license. openSUSE chooses to proceed with distributing the GPL licensed official reference implementation, openJDK. We will no longer distribute newer versions or updates of the now proprietary licensed Sun/Oracle JDK. Existing installations of the Sun/Oracle JDK are still licensed under the now retired DLJ. openSUSE users who wish to continue using the Sun/Oracle JDK (including new versions thereof and updates) should now download directly from http://www.oracle.com/java. For now we keep the current sun-java packages (under the DLJ license) in the Java:sun:Factory project and will not update them anymore.
I suggest to document in the openSUSE wiki how to install the Sun/Oracle JDK version from Oracle under openSUSE.
Andreas - --------------------------++-
I just looked at the description in the "jre1.8.0_60" rpm from Oracle, while installing it.
It says:
+++-------------------------- jre1.8.0_60 - Java Platform Standard Edition Runtime Environment
The Java Platform Standard Edition Runtime Environment (JRE) contains everything necessary to run applets and applications designed for the Java platform. This includes the Java virtual machine, plus the Java platform classes and supporting files.
The JRE is freely redistributable, per the terms of the included license. - --------------------------++-
My question is:
Is still true that openSUSE can not distribute Oracle JRE, or can it be done?
IANAL but conditions to distribute Java under BCL make it impossible as part of Linux distribution. Check yourself BCL: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/index.html DLJ: http://omnios.omniti.com/omnios/release/info/0/pkg%3A%2F%2Fomnios%2Fruntime%... (no more available from Oracle site, at least under "canonical" URL)
Perhaps the issue is that they want the rpm to be redistributed without modification, whereas it needs to be changed to adapt file locations and links :-?
- -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAlYnwZ8ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VdKACcDRTN11mJPznjA7CLHohDAbUp LBwAoIkZdVu7x4SbzPwI+fgnn9OObjqG =/gAZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-10-21 19:14, Andrei Borzenkov wrote:
My question is:
Is still true that openSUSE can not distribute Oracle JRE, or can it be done?
IANAL but conditions to distribute Java under BCL make it impossible as part of Linux distribution. Check yourself
BCL: http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license/index.html
What
is BCL? Oracle Binary Code License Agreement for the Java SE Platform Products and JavaFX
I suppose it is this: C. LICENSE TO DISTRIBUTE SOFTWARE. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement and restrictions and exceptions set forth in the README File, including, but not limited to the Java Technology Restrictions and Limitations on Redistribution of these Supplemental Terms, Oracle grants you a non-exclusive, non-transferable, limited license without fees to reproduce and distribute the Software, provided that (i) you distribute the Software complete and unmodified and only bundled as part of, and for the sole purpose of running, your Programs, (ii) the Programs add significant and primary functionality to the Software, (iii) you do not distribute additional software intended to replace any component(s) of the Software, (iv) you do not remove or alter any proprietary legends or notices contained in the Software, (v) you only distribute the Software subject to a license agreement that: (a) is a complete, unmodified reproduction of this Agreement; or (b) protects Oracle's interests consistent with the terms contained in this Agreement and that includes the notice set forth in Section H, and (vi) you agree to defend and indemnify Oracle and its licensors from and against any damages, costs, liabilities, settlement amounts and/or expenses (including attorneys' fees) incurred in connection with any claim, lawsuit or action by any third party that arises or results from the use or distribution of any and all Programs and/or Software. The license set forth in this Section C does not extend to the Software identified in Section G.
DLJ: http://omnios.omniti.com/omnios/release/info/0/pkg%3A%2F%2Fomnios%2Fruntime%...
I
see there "DLJ" (Operating System Distributor License for Java).
But that's the JDK, not the JRE, and version 1.6.
(no more available from Oracle site, at least under "canonical" URL)
Ahh... I see. That's the license that applied to distributors, and it has been removed. I understand. Then we can not do it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlYn5LoACgkQja8UbcUWM1yArQD/ZQw1Wcw/SfEmg2EB+tML94Ho uYdyftFHnnukU8n7jAIA/jShe+ALKTmGBoVrNS5t9097dapN/Z07k2oWf9bwNcGs =8ExM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/21/2015 12:47 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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I have a doubt about this.
On Thursday, 2011-09-01 at 10:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote here:
This is over four years old. ???? -- Ken linux since 1994 S.U.s.E./openSUSE since 1996 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-10-22 15:44, Ken Schneider wrote:
On 10/21/2015 12:47 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have a doubt about this.
On Thursday, 2011-09-01 at 10:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote here:
This is over four years old. ????
Yes, of course. The decision to not ship Sun/Oracle java was made then. I was asking if it was still valid or could be reverted. I understand it can not, the issue is the same. Unfortunately. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlYpLHgACgkQja8UbcUWM1ynQgD+PCkNmjlYckK5I7yD+xpwjHzR Eqg3wwrcyIBbx0fxUcQBAIQs6m+CEplgtNT5NM4Zo04aW8w1+6asq6QGo2npmP9d =UJ5D -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello Carlos, Am 22.10.2015 um 20:35 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2015-10-22 15:44, Ken Schneider wrote:
On 10/21/2015 12:47 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
I have a doubt about this.
On Thursday, 2011-09-01 at 10:49 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote here:
This is over four years old. ????
Yes, of course. The decision to not ship Sun/Oracle java was made then. I was asking if it was still valid or could be reverted. I understand it can not, the issue is the same. Unfortunately.
Unfortunately, you managed to make your message almost unreadable: * starting with "i have a dobt about this" * quoting ***lots*** of text without quoting marks, so that it actually looks like top-posting from some badly working mail client * then asking the questing "is this still valid" below the very long, badly marked quote. To be honest, I did not read until the end of your email (also stemming from the fact, that your Signal/Noise ratio in this list is not very high, as others have already mentioned recently). The last thing being your in-line PGP signature which, for some reason, enigmail cannot handle (probably because the mail is altered by the mailing list software) and which makes reading your content even more a pain. Think about it: you are asking hundreds of people on this list to read your words and think about your ideas. Make it easy for them to understand what you want to say. Personally, all those mails which are hard to decode, their content will never be received by me. My time is just too valuable for that. Best regards, -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2015-10-23 10:29, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Hello Carlos,
Unfortunately, you managed to make your message almost unreadable:
Andrei had no problem with it, and posted the correct hints for me to find the answer.
* starting with "i have a dobt about this"
No, I wrote: "I have a doubt about this.". I didn't make those spelling errors you say I did. I just verified it.
* quoting ***lots*** of text without quoting marks,
It was wrapped between cut marks: +++-------------------------- text - --------------------------++- Notice that the email was in fact a "forward", as the subject says (wording added by the mail client program).
The last thing being your in-line PGP signature which, for some reason, enigmail cannot handle (probably because the mail is altered by the mailing list software) and which makes reading your content even more a pain.
It was generated by Alpine, and the signature verifies. My enigmail has no problem with it, so it must be an issue on your side. Sorry about it, but not my fault. For instance, if you have not imported the keys of the sender, I think Enigmail shows the full text. This is a nuisance for reading, I agree, so I just tell it to import that signature.
Think about it: you are asking hundreds of people on this list to read your words and think about your ideas. Make it easy for them to understand what you want to say.
I'm sorry, but I really thought it would be easy to understand. You say it wasn't, thus next time I'll try differently. Maybe I should have left it as the original forward, with the original text at the end, similar to a top post :-? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlYqdk0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9X5gQCbBMQcEEJK4UkHMvYwQFoN5wpA M0QAoIbfqTC2Ki2r9g4igBAg/FShRWeu =Z5sb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 23.10.2015 um 20:02 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
On 2015-10-23 10:29, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Hello Carlos,
Unfortunately, you managed to make your message almost unreadable:
Andrei had no problem with it, and posted the correct hints for me to find the answer.
* starting with "i have a dobt about this"
No, I wrote: "I have a doubt about this.". I didn't make those spelling errors you say I did. I just verified it.
I was certainly not wanting to imply that you did spell wrong :-)
* quoting ***lots*** of text without quoting marks,
It was wrapped between cut marks:
Yes, but in the end, it is work for me to find the end of that block and then find out what the actual question was. Obviously Andrei was more willing to do that kind of work. I wasn't :-)
+++-------------------------- text --------------------------++-
Notice that the email was in fact a "forward", as the subject says (wording added by the mail client program).
In that case, a top post with the question in front, like "We did drop SUN JDK (see mail forward) 3 years ago, can we possibly reinstate it because.... $URL1 $URL2 ?" would have been the way to make things easier to read. And it would have implicitly answered the "why is he digging this three year old mails out again?" questions, among others.
The last thing being your in-line PGP signature which, for some reason, enigmail cannot handle (probably because the mail is altered by the mailing list software) and which makes reading your content even more a pain.
It was generated by Alpine, and the signature verifies. My enigmail has no problem with it, so it must be an issue on your side. Sorry about it, but not my fault.
Well, i personally question the usefulness of signed mails in mailinglist, but that's certainly a matter of preference. And with the imported key, it does not look quite as ugly as before. But what I wanted to express: * make it easy for people to get your message, and they might be much more likely to help you. I am getting about 500 emails on an average day from openSUSE mailing lists alone, not counting the upstream projects I'm subscribed. Obviously I'm not going to read them all. For example in this list, I'm ignoring all threads that are about KDE. Or when people are doing experiments with strange combinations of repositories or with binary only drivers. Many of the other mails, I only read the first few lines, and the more interesting those are (or the easier it is for me to understand the problem of the sender), the more likely it is, that I'm going to read the whole mail or even the whole thread. And then if I'm able to, I might even try to help :-) Now in this case, there is nothing I can do to help, so it does not really matter. In the your previous mail (the reply to Ken), I suddenly noticed that this reply's content should have been in the first mail, because it nicely summarized the issue, and I thought I'd tell you so you know why sometimes people are not answering :-) Best regards, -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2015-10-24 18:29, Stefan Seyfried wrote:
Am 23.10.2015 um 20:02 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
...
In that case, a top post with the question in front, like
"We did drop SUN JDK (see mail forward) 3 years ago, can we possibly reinstate it because.... $URL1 $URL2 ?"
Understood, thanks. Next time I will try that way, if my memory doesn't fail me and my skills allow :-) Believe me, I wrote it that way because I thought it would be easier to read. I don't like clicking on links, I prefer included text.
Well, i personally question the usefulness of signed mails in mailinglist, but that's certainly a matter of preference.
Fair question :-) I routinely sign almost all my list mail, because years ago I was the target of an impersonator (well, one of the targets, there were others), who used my name (and email sometimes) to gravely insult people whom I respected or was friendly with. I had to turn to PGP signing in order to prove which posts were mine or not. I agree that a PGP signature adds size, and some mail clients do not transparently handle them. It is a pain for (most?) webmail users. A PKCS signature would be better in that respect, perhaps, but it is bigger size. Or was when I tried, years ago.
And with the imported key, it does not look quite as ugly as before.
But what I wanted to express:
* make it easy for people to get your message, and they might be much more likely to help you.
I am getting about 500 emails on an average day from openSUSE mailing lists alone, not counting the upstream projects I'm subscribed. Obviously I'm not going to read them all. For example in this list, I'm ignoring all threads that are about KDE. Or when people are doing experiments with strange combinations of repositories or with binary only drivers. Many of the other mails, I only read the first few lines, and the more interesting those are (or the easier it is for me to understand the problem of the sender), the more likely it is, that I'm going to read the whole mail or even the whole thread. And then if I'm able to, I might even try to help :-)
Fair enough. I do the same :-) I will try to redact my posts in a way that the most important content is at the very top. On bugzillas, sometimes I write a summary paragraph at the top.
Now in this case, there is nothing I can do to help, so it does not really matter.
Well, the question was answered satisfactorily, but thank you for your interest :-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)
participants (5)
-
Andrei Borzenkov -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Ken Schneider -
Stefan Seyfried