Sid Boyce wrote:

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Does anybody mean to package it? If it's the CDE (Common Desktop Environment), the Sun cast-off, spend

On 06/08/12 14:39, Ilya Chernykh wrote: the effort elsewhere. It was an ugly appendage on Solaris.

How about informing yourself before ranting? CDE is the common UNIX desktop that has been created by AT&T, Sun, Xerox, HP, IBM, .... and that was omnipresent. It is still the official POSIX GUI. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Aug 06, 2012 at 07:24:34PM +0200, Erwin Van de Velde wrote:

On Monday 06 August 2012 17:45:05 Joerg Schilling wrote:

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Sid Boyce wrote:

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On 06/08/12 14:39, Ilya Chernykh wrote:

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Does anybody mean to package it?

If it's the CDE (Common Desktop Environment), the Sun cast-off, spend the effort elsewhere.

Seems to be correct.

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...

It was an ugly appendage on Solaris.

The "native" desktop was called OpenWindows, which was later replaced by CDE, which to many people really felt like an "ugly appendage".

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How about informing yourself before ranting?

So to me it looks like an informed (albeit opinionated) posting. You also fail to cite the Motif part.

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CDE is the common UNIX desktop that has been created by AT&T, Sun, Xerox, HP, IBM, .... and that was omnipresent.

It is still the official POSIX GUI.

Sure, and CLNP is still the official OSI datagram protocol.

Unfortunately it is butt ugly :-)

In my days I had a lot of additional attributes for it, but IMO, CDE isn't worth insulting any more ;-> Ciao Jörg -- Joerg Mayer We are stuck with technology when what we really want is just stuff that works. Some say that should read Microsoft instead of technology. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Sid Boyce wrote:

You beat me to it Erwin, I was just about to put a qualifier before "ugly".

I guess that was the core reason why Sun chose other desktops for "open"Solaris.

I am not sure whether this is missing knowlede at your side.... OpenSolaris needs an open desktop but at that time, there have been companies like HP and IBM that did not like CDE (and other software they control) to be OSS. BTW: the fact that you write "open" instead of Open shows that you miss important facts. A typical Linux distro is e.g. less open than a typical OpenSolaris distro. If I need to test whether something can be done on pure OSS, I use Solaris and definitely not Linux. Let me make an example: On Linux, you can use SCM cardreaders because there are closed drivers for these mon-standard readers. On Solaris this does not work as there is no OSS driver for SCM cardreaders. I however have no problems to use a ReinerSCT cardreader because it is standard compliant. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt wrote:

Windows is also omnipresent, and the POSIX guys are known to have strange ideas sometimes. So what?

You wanted to say that Linux guys are known to have strange ideas sometines? Please explain me e.g. why on Linux, you don't get the full exit code from a program with waitid(). Both exit() and waitid() permit a full int, Linux masks the exit code with 0xFF.... so what is strange, POSIX or Linux? BTW: We discuss strange ideas from other people and try to find the best solution. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Monday 2012-08-06 22:26, Joerg Schilling wrote:

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Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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Windows is also omnipresent, and the POSIX guys are known to have strange ideas sometimes. So what?

You wanted to say that Linux guys are known to have strange ideas sometines?

(The GNU people say, and I would not distrust that statement that) df(1), in POSIX-compliant mode, is to show number of blocks in units of 512 bytes, rather than a more sane default like 1K.

And you are the person who decides what is sane? There is a rule in POSIX not to break existing software. df on UNIX did always report in multiple of 512 bytes. Later BSD changed this in an incompatible way. POSIX did not go the incompatible BSD path but rather introduced the -k option. As POSIX also introduced the alias command, there is no problem to make df -k the default.

...

Please explain me e.g. why on Linux, you don't get the full exit code from a program with waitid(). Both exit() and waitid() permit a full int, Linux masks the exit code with 0xFF.... so what is strange, POSIX or Linux?

That would be POSIX again, I suppose:

http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/exit.html

"""The value of status may be 0, EXIT_SUCCESS, EXIT_FAILURE, [CX] or any other value, though only the least significant 8 bits (that is, status & 0377) shall be available to a waiting parent process."""

Linux/glibc merely implement this POSIX-defined behavior.

No, Linux implements bugs in the descriptive text found in outdated verions. Your text is not the recent text. The correct text is rather: If the parent process of the calling process is executing a wait(), waitid(), or waitpid(), [XSI]and has neither set its SA_NOCLDWAIT flag nor set SIGCHLD to SIG_IGN,[/XSI] it shall be notified of termination of the calling process and the child's status shall be made available to it. If the parent is not waiting, the child?s status shall be made available to it when the parent subsequently executes wait(), waitid(), or waitpid(). and: the least significant 8 bits (that is, status & 0377) shall be available from wait() and waitpid(); the full value shall be available from waitid() and in the siginfo_t passed to a signal handler for SIGCHLD. Note that the description for SIGCHLD and si_status mentiones a full int since it exists, so Linux was always incorrect. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) joerg.schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.berlios.de/private/ ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 10 September 2012 23:57, Philipp Thomas wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:41:55 +0200, Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

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Your text is not the recent text.

It's not, but AFAIK it's the only version of 1003.1 that's available for free on the net. If there is indeed a newer freely available version I'd like to know.

Actually the link was to issue 6, and issue 7 is available. But Joerg is quoting this: http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=594#c1317 If you look at the dates you will notice that bashing Linux is quite stupid here. Specially since http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=594#c1320 says: "Based on Note: 0001318, Note: 0001317 has been edited to remove the XSI shading on the "full exit value" requirements." and http://austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=594#c1318 starts with "I asked various Linux kernel hackers". Nothing to see here... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 16:45:46 +0200, Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote:

Wrong,

How can a question be wrong? Seems you should quote more precisely.

I was quoting the current version of the text that is available to every interested person besides us who wrote the text.

And of cause you failed to pass on the URL to us mere humans ... Philipp -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:41:55 +0200 Joerg.Schilling@fokus.fraunhofer.de (Joerg Schilling) wrote: ...

And you are the person who decides what is sane?

There is a rule in POSIX not to break existing software. ...

Interesting concept "not to break existing software". How much software that was created 20 years ago, when sector was 512 bytes, still works without modifications to accommodate new disk sizes that are 10^6 larger, or change in a definition of prefixes, K, M, G etc. I'm pretty confident to say there is no such software. POSIX concept is fine, it is just its interpretation that needs adjustment, and as usually, younger people like Jan have no problems with that. -- Regards, Rajko. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 06 August 2012 18:05:39 Sid Boyce wrote:

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Does anybody mean to package it? If it's the CDE (Common Desktop Environment), the Sun cast-off, spend the effort elsewhere. It was an ugly appendage on Solaris.

Well in fact it was used everywhere on UNIX and VMS, not only on Solaris. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org