Op dinsdag 25 juli 2017 21:03:31 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan :

* Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink [07-25-17 14:51]:

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Op dinsdag 25 juli 2017 20:43:37 CEST schreef Patrick Shanahan:

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* Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink [07-25-17 14:30]:

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so you and I are still present after richard's rant :)

do you know who was banned? perhaps Brian White...

Please note, that this was not Richard's rant, this was a unanimous board decision. And that there is no need to ridicule anything about it. No need to CC the list, that is.

you obviously did not read the "oooops". the on-list post was NOT intended, mail was to be private but so much for that. :(

Cheers for sending a private mail. Shit happens.( I'm the one that posted a reply to board internal ML to the opensuse@ list :P). Nothing personal, Patrick. My statement still stands, it was not Richard's rant. This had been on the board's dish for a long time.

guess you didn't notice this either, was sent to you "private".

X-( Ashamed. Sorry. -- Gertjan Lettink, a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2017-07-27 at 09:24 +0200, Jiri Slaby wrote:

On 07/25/2017, 08:50 PM, Knurpht - Gertjan Lettink wrote:

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My statement still stands, it was not Richard's rant. This had been on the board's dish for a long time.

Given many of us (regular list readers) have no clue who the two banned guys could be, I suspect the board is rather killing democracy and abuse its power.

And not naming the persons, nor providing a proof (links to the posts) does not add any good to that.

as a REGULAR list reader here in the last couple days, it is not hard to GUESS from the happenings (and the warnings spoken in the various threads) who the candidates might be. In plus, the board clearly stated that they won't call names for privacy reasons. Just because those individuals had/caused issues in our community is no justification to 'shame them forever in the archives of the internet' - that is my opinion, not the boards. Cheers, Dominique

Am Donnerstag, den 27.07.2017, 09:39 +0200 schrieb Jiri Slaby:

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Just because those individuals had/caused issues in our community is no justification to 'shame them forever in the archives of the internet' - that is my

OK, I don't share this opinion. If someone repeatedly breaks rules and it is pointed out to them, they definitely deserve a ban. The rest deserves a clear reasoning why a member of their community was banned. There is nothing wrong on that -- if one stands in front of the court, the result with reasoning is also published. If they like it or not...

"Based on the posts sent to the list in the last couple of days, we decided to ban him" is not the right way to go. We are open community.

Indeed. Giving a reason is not enough, as you cannot tell whether it applies unless you know whom it refers to. Regards Oliver -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday, 27 July 2017 9:29 Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

On Thu, 2017-07-27 at 09:24 +0200, Jiri Slaby wrote:

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Given many of us (regular list readers) have no clue who the two banned guys could be, I suspect the board is rather killing democracy and abuse its power.

Agreed. Unfortunately this is not the first time I feel some people managing openSUSE cannot handle the power the were given very well. What I personally find worst is the "for life" part. The term of board members is something like 2 years, IIRC. In a few years, there might be a completely different board, seeing things differently. And yet, they just wave their hands and ban someone "for life". Do they even realize how long "for life" is? In my eyes, that's a blatant example of someone vastly overestimating the weight of their mandate.

as a REGULAR list reader here in the last couple days, it is not hard to GUESS from the happenings (and the warnings spoken in the various threads) who the candidates might be.

As a regular list reader for last couple of years, I'm not so sure. There are certainly some people who are annoying frequently but there are (were) definitely more than two of them. I suspect others might find me one of them, from time to time. I certainly wouldn't dare to guess who were the two that board decided to single out. If I wanted to know, it would be probably easy to find out by eliminating those who keep posting but whatever board says, it's not like "Of course, it's these two, that's obvious." What I find disturbing is the fact that only those who disagree with the official doctrine(s) are ever warned. And that's why this whole ban thing will look like an abuse of power to those who don't share the official views, no mather how many tens or hundreds of lines Richard Brown writes about why it isn't. For the record, my first reaction to Richard Brown's e-mail was "This is way over the line, I don't want to be part of this. I should probably unsubscribe from all openSUSE lists, except perhaps opensuse-kernel." After some deliberation, I decided not to. Not yet, that is. But it doesn't mean I agree with what the board did. If they keep walking this dark path, I certainly wouldn't want to be part of such "community". Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 27/07/17 04:16 AM, Michal Kubecek wrote:

And that's why this whole ban thing will look like an abuse of power

Oh, really? And what about the 'abuse of privilege' that led to it? Why aren't you mentioning that? -- "Current economics is merely refining the obsolete. Economic theory is still based on the scarcity axiom, which doesn't apply to information. When I sell you a phone, I no longer have it. When I sell information to you, I have more information by the very fact that you have it and I know you have it. That's not even true of money." -- Peter Drucker, WiReD6.03 Mar-1998 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org