Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] DCMA act - Linux format xmas 2001
The law has historically been imposed as a means to protect property and of course the more property you've got the more influence you have in shaping what becomes law.
No problem with that.
Now it seems that the intelligence services have made a grab for more law, not because they're interested in paedophiles, terrorists are drug smugglers, but because they're interested in grabbing intellectual property and more `jobs for the boys'.
Yeah, right, and the Jews were responsible for blowing up the twin towers. I'm very cynical about the authorities's motivations, but "grabbing intellectual property"? That's just tosh. I've heard so many daft conspiracy theories since 9/11 (as the Americans refer to it) that I'm thinking of writing a book. The slack security that led to the incident itself is support for the cock-up theory of disaster more than anything else. Subsequent proposals for new powers are just panicky efforts by incompetents at stable-door shutting. Here in the UK for example (see *The Observer*'s review of her autobiography) our very own Stella Rimington shut down the unit responsible for investigating al-Qaeda members in London years ago because she thought it was a waste of money. Sure, the security forces want more power and money, but most of them are inept plotters---unless it's some elaborate double-bluff, of course. The vast majority of such "security operatives" are bumbling bean-counters who just do what's required for a quiet life. They are civil servants---with all the images that creates; just like the half-wits who negotiate "bargain" deals with Microsoft.
Yay! The penguinistas should march on Menwith Hill, MI6 Vauxhall and parliament in no particular order and kick the lot out - our taxes would halve over night ;-)
Please, not the "small government" fetish---even as a joke. Most of the depressing aspects of life in Britain are nothing to do with high taxes and flabby administration; they're to do with people who have allowed themselves to be conned into believing they can have a proper health service (still considerably more efficient than most of the others in the World) without paying for it, or that they should be able to drive to work easily despite sitting one-to-a-jeep as they take their cars to school, to the newsagent and to the out-of-town shopping mall. We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box. Increases in security powers are meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade and not the sorts of thoughtful iconoclasts who read this list ;-). They are very little to do with "intellectual property" or, indeed, "jobs for the boys"---about which most individual MI6 employees probably couldn't give a toss. (I told you I was cynical.) -- Damian COUNSELL http://www.counsell.com/
On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 07:57:18AM +0000, Damian Counsell wrote:
The law has historically been imposed as a means to protect property and of course the more property you've got the more influence you have in shaping what becomes law.
No problem with that.
Now it seems that the intelligence services have made a grab for more law, not because they're interested in paedophiles, terrorists are drug smugglers, but because they're interested in grabbing intellectual property and more `jobs for the boys'.
Yeah, right, and the Jews were responsible for blowing up the twin towers. I'm very cynical about the authorities's motivations, but "grabbing intellectual property"? That's just tosh.
The security services are in up to their knecks when it comes to grabbing sensitive commercial information and also preventing it from being grabbed. It's why the French are keen on introducing Linux - as there's less possibility of the US making use of the numerous backdoors littering MS products to steal their firms commercial secrets.
I've heard so many daft conspiracy theories since 9/11 (as the Americans refer to it) that I'm thinking of writing a book. The slack security that led to the incident itself is support for the cock-up theory of disaster more than anything else.
Most of the conspiracy theories are rot. Plenty of people hate the US - the only surprising thing was that it hadn't happened earlier.
Subsequent proposals for new powers are just panicky efforts by incompetents at stable-door shutting.
No, they're not that incompetent. It's a power grab under a pretence - pure & simple.
Here in the UK for example (see *The Observer*'s review of her autobiography) our very own Stella Rimington shut down the unit responsible for investigating al-Qaeda members in London years ago because she thought it was a waste of money.
It probably was a waste of money - there's more money to be made in espionage itself rather than counter-espionage on a group who hate the yanks. Crikey, if they investigated every group that hated the yanks then they wouldn't have resources to do anything else.
Sure, the security forces want more power and money, but most of them are inept plotters---unless it's some elaborate double-bluff, of course. The vast majority of such "security operatives" are bumbling bean-counters who just do what's required for a quiet life. They are civil servants---with all the images that creates; just like the half-wits who negotiate "bargain" deals with Microsoft.
I think that this bumbling image is carefully cultivated. Most of them are very clever individuals and I've met a few. Remember that Oxbridge is still the prime recruitment area and people who go there aren't noticeably stupid. When it comes to the government per se, then the bumbling incompetence displayed is not carefully cultivated - its a fact. Most of these politicians are effectively unemployable; although they've got the cunning of cornered rats they're really quite thick - and unpleasant with it.
Yay! The penguinistas should march on Menwith Hill, MI6 Vauxhall and parliament in no particular order and kick the lot out - our taxes would halve over night ;-)
Please, not the "small government" fetish---even as a joke. Most of the depressing aspects of life in Britain are nothing to do with high taxes and flabby administration; they're to do with people who have allowed themselves to be conned into believing they can have a proper health service (still considerably more efficient than most of the others in the World) without paying for it, or that they should be able to drive to work easily despite sitting one-to-a-jeep as they take their cars to school, to the newsagent and to the out-of-town shopping mall.
I disagree entirely. The ill's of this country are caused by stupid, mendacious and greedy politicians and civil servants who spend the countries money on vanity projects such as the Dome and the most expensive office space in Europe on themselves. Then when they can't get all their friends and family jobs they create `parliaments' in every province of the land and fill them with more toadies, brown-nosers and hangers on. The money they've got at their disposal they dish out to their `mates' who then dish it out to their `mates'. This is what happens in the health-service were the health authority jobs are political appointments to their clueless, greedy and corrupt friends. Hence we get such things as the MS deal. Public transport is actively discouraged because it doesn't use so much oil and hence raise so much revenue or income for the oil companies - remember what the baboon in the Whitehouse did before he became president? I do trust that he's not using the terrorist business in Afghanistan as a smokescreen to stop the development of the Caspian oil reserves by the commies. I mean that would be really cynical, bombing starving people in order to protect his `mates' and his interests. These amongst other reasons is why our taxes are going up and it's why I want smaller government - we don't need them, they're worthless parasitic scum.
We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box.
If you think we live in some sort of democratic paradise where politicians listen to us then you're astoundingly naive. The Daily Mail and the rest of the Fleet St rags might aswell be written by 10 Downing St along with the BBC news etc. At least one Fleet St editor is known to be an MI5 man.
Increases in security powers are meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade and not the sorts of thoughtful iconoclasts who read this list ;-). They are very little to do with "intellectual property" or, indeed, "jobs for the boys"---about which most individual MI6 employees probably couldn't give a toss. (I told you I was cynical.)
It's not meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade. It's presented to us as meeting the publics demands for security as evidenced by the stories in the Daily Mail etc `reflecting public concern'. Only the terminally stupid give a damn about terrorists, paedophiles and the rest of the media created monsters lurking on the 'net - but then I guess Daily Mail readers are terminally stupid. BTW, what they really don't like about the 'net is cynical people like myself agitating public opinion against them. The 'net thankfully remains a bastion of free speech and let's hope, despite their best efforts, it stays that way. My best guess is it will. After all many years ago the rich/powerful tried to control printing technology and that effort also failed miserably. Cynical? You're an amateur ;-) -- Frank *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Boroughbridge. Tel: 01423 323019 --------- PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ Marge, there's just too much pressure, what with my job, the kids, traffic snarls, political strife at home and abroad. But I promise you, the second all of those things go away, we'll have sex. -- Homer Simpson Grampa vs. Sexual Inadequacy
We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box.
If you think we live in some sort of democratic paradise where politicians listen to us then you're astoundingly naive. The Daily Mail and the rest of the Fleet St rags might aswell be written by 10 Downing St along with the BBC news etc. At least one Fleet St editor is known to be an MI5 man.
Yes let's bring in the Taliban and have done with it :-) We live in an imperfect world that is never going to be perfect. The Western Democracies appear to be the best option and infinitely better than the more extreme alternatives. Things might not always go the way we want but at least we have the opportunity to make a realistic effort to change them. -- IanL Open Source - save money - employ more teachers Use Star Office the free replacement for Microsoft Office
On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 07:57:18AM +0000, Damian Counsell wrote:
The law has historically been imposed as a means to protect property and of course the more property you've got the more influence you have in shaping what becomes law.
No problem with that.
Now it seems that the intelligence services have made a grab for more law, not because they're interested in paedophiles, terrorists are drug smugglers, but because they're interested in grabbing intellectual property and more `jobs for the boys'.
Yeah, right, and the Jews were responsible for blowing up the twin towers. I'm very cynical about the authorities's motivations, but "grabbing intellectual property"? That's just tosh.
The security services are in up to their knecks when it comes to grabbing sensitive commercial information and also preventing it from being grabbed. It's why the French are keen on introducing Linux - as
Unfortunatly they appear somewhat less good at tracking down organised crime and terrorists. Which is ment to be their real job in the first place.
there's less possibility of the US making use of the numerous backdoors littering MS products to steal their firms commercial secrets.
Though I doubt the "backdoors" were specifically put in for that purpose. Most of them appear to be due to a design which enables "features" which are rarely used by default...
I've heard so many daft conspiracy theories since 9/11 (as the Americans refer to it) that I'm thinking of writing a book. The slack security that led to the incident itself is support for the cock-up theory of disaster more than anything else.
Most of the conspiracy theories are rot. Plenty of people hate the US - the only surprising thing was that it hadn't happened earlier.
It did, but skyscrapers tend to handle truck bombs in basement carparks quite well. More to the point most of the proposed anti-terrorist measures best at worst be a minor inconvenice.
Subsequent proposals for new powers are just panicky efforts by incompetents at stable-door shutting.
No, they're not that incompetent. It's a power grab under a pretence - pure & simple.
Most of the proposed ideas have been around for a long time, hence the conspiracy theories. (As well as having little to no relevance to "horses" or "stables".) But would you really expect the US (and for that matter the UK) governments to come clean and say "yes we have interfered with the functioning of other governments, including supporting dictators who were favourable to our business interests". (Let alone seek new policies to both clean up the mess which has been created in the last 50 or so years or attempt to prevent the same thing happening in future.) Maybe that's why the US government has a problem with effectivly punishing Microsoft. It sees something of itself in the way Microsoft does business.
We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box.
If you think we live in some sort of democratic paradise where politicians listen to us then you're astoundingly naive. The Daily Mail and the rest of the Fleet St rags might aswell be written by 10 Downing St along with the BBC news etc. At least one Fleet St editor is
The BBC is (marginally) better than some. Though the UK media does generally appear to be a little more impartial and cynical than that in the US...
known to be an MI5 man.
Increases in security powers are meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade and not the sorts of thoughtful iconoclasts who read this list ;-). They are very little to do with "intellectual property" or, indeed, "jobs for the boys"---about which most individual MI6 employees probably couldn't give a toss. (I told you I was cynical.)
It's not meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade. It's
In a sense it is both, since it gives the illusion of those in authority doing something to address the "problem".
presented to us as meeting the publics demands for security as evidenced by the stories in the Daily Mail etc `reflecting public concern'. Only the terminally stupid give a damn about terrorists, paedophiles and the rest of the media created monsters lurking on the
As opposed to the media created monster of gangs of thugs terrorising housing estates...
'net - but then I guess Daily Mail readers are terminally stupid.
-- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 09:52:04AM +0000, Mark Evans wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 07:57:18AM +0000, Damian Counsell wrote:
The law has historically been imposed as a means to protect property and of course the more property you've got the more influence you have in shaping what becomes law.
No problem with that.
Now it seems that the intelligence services have made a grab for more law, not because they're interested in paedophiles, terrorists are drug smugglers, but because they're interested in grabbing intellectual property and more `jobs for the boys'.
Yeah, right, and the Jews were responsible for blowing up the twin towers. I'm very cynical about the authorities's motivations, but "grabbing intellectual property"? That's just tosh.
The security services are in up to their knecks when it comes to grabbing sensitive commercial information and also preventing it from being grabbed. It's why the French are keen on introducing Linux - as
Unfortunatly they appear somewhat less good at tracking down organised crime and terrorists. Which is ment to be their real job in the first place.
I don't know if they have a real job - they seem to put their hands to anything whether it's commercial espionage or knocking off inconvenient princesses. The problem is that they're pretty much unaccountable to anyone & whether they actually do any good is debatable to say the least.
there's less possibility of the US making use of the numerous backdoors littering MS products to steal their firms commercial secrets.
Though I doubt the "backdoors" were specifically put in for that purpose. Most of them appear to be due to a design which enables "features" which are rarely used by default...
I would be staggered if the supplier of a pervasive OS didn't work with the security services in order to put backdoors in their products. It's just too good an opportunity to miss and I can't believe that they'd be so negligent as to not do it. Certainly the 'phone home features of XP must be a real bonus for them.
I've heard so many daft conspiracy theories since 9/11 (as the Americans refer to it) that I'm thinking of writing a book. The slack security that led to the incident itself is support for the cock-up theory of disaster more than anything else.
Most of the conspiracy theories are rot. Plenty of people hate the US - the only surprising thing was that it hadn't happened earlier.
It did, but skyscrapers tend to handle truck bombs in basement carparks quite well.
I forgot about that! Jet fuel seemed to do the job though. BTW, why didn't anybody in New York fire dept know that an intense fire would weaken a steel framed building to the point of collapse? Do they not employ a structural engineer? Heroes? Clueless bozos seems a more apt description.
More to the point most of the proposed anti-terrorist measures best at worst be a minor inconvenice.
That's right. A minor inconvenience to everybody going around their lawful business but no inconvenience at all to terrorists. The idea put around that they used cryptography is laughable. Any fool knows that if you're up to no good then you pre-arrange codewords in person beforehand ie. `We're organising a big party for Sept 11th do make sure you can make it.' or use dead letter drops and the like. I saw `Panorama' last night and they were still peddling the cryptography myth. BTW, I don't think the US fully realises yet that there's a very real threat from within. Timothy McVeigh wasn't the only US citizen to be upset by the shameful torture and killing of the Waco folks by the government. Whilst they concentrate on us sinister foreigners they don't realise that they're being undermined from within. When you've got a prison population in excess of 2 million (mainly black & denied a vote), a large underclass living in poverty (mainly black again) and people denied basic healthcare, then something is going to eventually give.
Subsequent proposals for new powers are just panicky efforts by incompetents at stable-door shutting.
No, they're not that incompetent. It's a power grab under a pretence - pure & simple.
Most of the proposed ideas have been around for a long time, hence the conspiracy theories. (As well as having little to no relevance to "horses" or "stables".) But would you really expect the US (and for that matter the UK) governments to come clean and say "yes we have interfered with the functioning of other governments, including supporting dictators who were favourable to our business interests".
Of course they can't. If people knew what was really going on they'd be horrified and then the Western governments would have to change. Fortunately for them, they largely control the minds of their populace. They've used Pavlov's findings to their full extent when it comes to managing their recalcitrant populations and Mein Kampf must be required reading for them. I noted that the NATO goon who was put up to front their media efforts with regards bombing Yugoslavia had a Phd in propaganda so he would have certainly read Pavlov and Hitler. Hence people actually still believe all the genocide nonsense spouted forth. One of the newspapers even updated the bayonetting and raping of nuns propaganda story that appeared in the papers here during the First World War and described in Robert Graves' `Goodbye to All That'!
(Let alone seek new policies to both clean up the mess which has been created in the last 50 or so years or attempt to prevent the same thing happening in future.)
Maybe that's why the US government has a problem with effectivly punishing Microsoft. It sees something of itself in the way Microsoft does business.
I think the primary reason for not controlling MS is economic. If they allowed competition and hence encouraged open source software then their economy would be damaged immensely. If they allowed an open system such as Linux to get a foothold on the desktop then foreigners will get a look in. ATM all the big software houses are Yankee and they want to keep it that way. After all, they don't want to create an even bigger disenfranchised underclass with the economic damage that would be wrought by punishing MS properly - that's just asking for trouble. I should think the NSA/CIA also quite likes the idea of a closed system produced by an American company on every foreigner's desktop.
We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box.
If you think we live in some sort of democratic paradise where politicians listen to us then you're astoundingly naive. The Daily Mail and the rest of the Fleet St rags might aswell be written by 10 Downing St along with the BBC news etc. At least one Fleet St editor is
The BBC is (marginally) better than some. Though the UK media does generally appear to be a little more impartial and cynical than that in the US...
BBC domestic news is trash IMO, very often they can't even get the basic facts right or use the English language correctly. The World Service on the other hand is worth listening to. After all they can't lie to foreigners who are on the ground and who know what's actually happening there. As for Fleet St, the only one worth reading is the FT - follow the money and you can then put the pieces together & work out what's actually going on for yourself. The American tv media is a complete waste of time as you imply. Foreign stories aren't reported to any extent and when they are only in the most stilted fashion ie. Johnny Foreigner bad, American heroes good. They concentrate on domestic issues pretty much exclusively ie. 6 months of speculation/`analysis' masquerading as news about whether Clinton had sex in the Oval office....well who cares? Probably not even Hilary. Hollywood is complete racist drivel obsessed with violence and sex and their films should be banned or at least restricted over here as in France. I say lets have more French films! At least their actresses are desirable which is more than can be said for most of the Hollywood actresses, and the plots of their films revolve around human issues rather than special effects & ludicrous plots......marvellous!... < Sorry...beginning to drivel on like Ron Manager...:> I've no idea about their newspapers.
known to be an MI5 man.
Increases in security powers are meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade and not the sorts of thoughtful iconoclasts who read this list ;-). They are very little to do with "intellectual property" or, indeed, "jobs for the boys"---about which most individual MI6 employees probably couldn't give a toss. (I told you I was cynical.)
It's not meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade. It's
In a sense it is both, since it gives the illusion of those in authority doing something to address the "problem".
That's right. It's completely self-serving in that they define the `problem' and then supposedly `cure' it. The politicians create the "something-must-be-done" brigade themselves so they can push their own hidden agenda.
presented to us as meeting the publics demands for security as evidenced by the stories in the Daily Mail etc `reflecting public concern'. Only the terminally stupid give a damn about terrorists, paedophiles and the rest of the media created monsters lurking on the
As opposed to the media created monster of gangs of thugs terrorising housing estates...
A tried & tested propaganda technique is to keep the populace in perpetual fear - it's well known that this makes them more susceptible to brainwashing techniques. This is detailed in `Brave New World - Revisited' where Huxley mentions Mein Kampf as the seminal work on using it, and of course was described in Orwell's `1984'. Most people nowadays wont let their kids out of the house for fear of them being molested, killed etc. But the fact is that the likelihood of this happening is no more than it was 50 yrs ago but if you read the papers you'd think it was happening on every street corner every day of the week. Keeping them inside also has the handy side-effect of getting them to watch more of the crap on the TV that they pump out - crap about child molesters, killers, terrorists, cannibals, assorted sex maniacs & dope fiends on the loose, evil foreigners raping nuns and American heroes saving the world, all courtesy of Hollywood. Sling the telly out & break this not so virtuous cycle is what I say. People have to start thinking for themselves rather than being told what to think - and by Americans of all people. Anyway, the point of this posting (if there is any..) is to point out that the political system over here is pretty much as corrupt as the American system, after all we've got a `special' (dog/lamp-post) relationship with the Americans and if they've decided to go lightly on MS then they will over here too. This seems to be the case when you look at the OFT's response to Michael's letter. I don't think they'll do the same in Europe though. The French for starters are fairly fiercely independent & they're obviously not happy with an American monopoly being pushed down their throats & threatening their national security & industry. Nobody within the EU takes much notice of Blair & what he thinks - he's rightfully seen as a Washington lackey & stooge. The French & Germans now run the EU by default. So I suggest that everybodys hopes of breaking the monopoly now lie within the EU and any activism with regards that and the patent/copyright stuff is best placed in that direction. -- Frank *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Boroughbridge. Tel: 01423 323019 --------- PGP keyID: 0xC0B341A3 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/ A dead man cannot bite. -- Gnaeus Pompeius (Pompey)
Anyway, the point of this posting (if there is any..) is to point out that the political system over here is pretty much as corrupt as the American system,
There are degrees of corruptnes in all political systems. I should think on purely objective grounds the British system is a lot better than most and at least as good as the best. The American system is too dominated by money buying the president but at least they have a pretty good level of free speech.
This seems to be the case when you look at the OFT's response to Michael's letter.
That is more to do with a civil service mentality that is tied to procedures and doesn't see this particular issue as their remit. Why cause yourself a load of unnecessary hassle?
I don't think they'll do the same in Europe though.
Still waiting to hear the EU view on whether the NHS deal should have been tendered in accordance with EU policy. The EU are very slow.
So I suggest that everybodys hopes of breaking the monopoly now lie within the EU and any activism with regards that and the patent/copyright stuff is best placed in that direction.
I think it would be a mistake to stop lobbying in this country. That plays into the hands of anyone who simply can't be bothered. A better tactic might be to approach the opposition parties. Matthew Taylor, the Lib/dem treasury shadow has already asked some embarassing questions about the inland revenue not tendering large contracts. The Tories need any ammunition they can get. The only danger is that it polarises the G in the opposite direction but if the situation gets well aired in debate and in the news I can't see the papers and joe public siding with the G and a large private monopoly that is obviously fleecing them. When it becomes obvious that votes might be at stake hearts and minds follow. EU is also a worthwhile strategic ally. Take every opportunity to lobby both because you don't actually know which will work and it might be that it will take both. -- IanL Open Source - save money - employ more teachers Use Star Office the free replacement for Microsoft Office
Anyway, the point of this posting (if there is any..) is to point out that the political system over here is pretty much as corrupt as the American system,
There are degrees of corruptnes in all political systems. I should think on purely objective grounds the British system is a lot better than most and at least as good as the best. The American system is too dominated by money
It's tricky to estimate political corruption. Since by definition it tends to happen in secret. (Unless someone is actually caught red handed.)
buying the president but at least they have a pretty good level of free speech.
This seems to be the case when you look at the OFT's response to Michael's letter.
That is more to do with a civil service mentality that is tied to procedures and doesn't see this particular issue as their remit. Why cause yourself a load of unnecessary hassle?
I don't think they'll do the same in Europe though.
Still waiting to hear the EU view on whether the NHS deal should have been tendered in accordance with EU policy. The EU are very slow.
Which is one of the biggest problems here. By the time the question gets considered it's a "done deal".
So I suggest that everybodys hopes of breaking the monopoly now lie within the EU and any activism with regards that and the patent/copyright stuff is best placed in that direction.
I think it would be a mistake to stop lobbying in this country. That plays into the hands of anyone who simply can't be bothered. A better tactic might
Or who has no idea how to approach the EU...
be to approach the opposition parties. Matthew Taylor, the Lib/dem treasury shadow has already asked some embarassing questions about the inland revenue not tendering large contracts. The Tories need any ammunition they can get.
Especially on something which is a current "hot" issue. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763
On Thu, Dec 13, 2001 at 09:52:04AM +0000, Mark Evans wrote:
On Wed, Dec 12, 2001 at 07:57:18AM +0000, Damian Counsell wrote:
The law has historically been imposed as a means to protect property and of course the more property you've got the more influence you have in shaping what becomes law.
No problem with that.
Now it seems that the intelligence services have made a grab for more law, not because they're interested in paedophiles, terrorists are drug smugglers, but because they're interested in grabbing intellectual property and more `jobs for the boys'.
Yeah, right, and the Jews were responsible for blowing up the twin towers. I'm very cynical about the authorities's motivations, but "grabbing intellectual property"? That's just tosh.
The security services are in up to their knecks when it comes to grabbing sensitive commercial information and also preventing it from being grabbed. It's why the French are keen on introducing Linux - as
Unfortunatly they appear somewhat less good at tracking down organised crime and terrorists. Which is ment to be their real job in the first place.
I don't know if they have a real job - they seem to put their hands to anything whether it's commercial espionage or knocking off inconvenient princesses. The problem is that they're pretty much unaccountable to anyone & whether they actually do any good is debatable to say the least.
Problem is that they do sometimes get caught doing rather nasty things. So nasty that those who caught them aren't likely to be thinking "Well most people in their country probably wouldn't sanction what they were up to, so we need to be careful we don't hurt any civilians when we retaliate" (More likely its "America/Britan/France/Israel/etc couldn't care less what harm they do to our civilians, so why should we behave differently?")
there's less possibility of the US making use of the numerous backdoors littering MS products to steal their firms commercial secrets.
Though I doubt the "backdoors" were specifically put in for that purpose. Most of them appear to be due to a design which enables "features" which are rarely used by default...
I would be staggered if the supplier of a pervasive OS didn't work with the security services in order to put backdoors in their products. It's just too good an opportunity to miss and I can't believe that they'd be so negligent as to not do it. Certainly the 'phone home features of XP must be a real bonus for them.
But so many of them. It's almost to the point of having a lockable door on a field..
I've heard so many daft conspiracy theories since 9/11 (as the Americans refer to it) that I'm thinking of writing a book. The slack security that led to the incident itself is support for the cock-up theory of disaster more than anything else.
Most of the conspiracy theories are rot. Plenty of people hate the US - the only surprising thing was that it hadn't happened earlier.
It did, but skyscrapers tend to handle truck bombs in basement carparks quite well.
I forgot about that! Jet fuel seemed to do the job though.
BTW, why didn't anybody in New York fire dept know that an intense fire would weaken a steel framed building to the point of collapse? Do they not employ a structural engineer? Heroes? Clueless bozos seems a more apt description.
According to the documentry last night on C4 they couldn't find anyone who had considered the effects of jet fuel. Anyway the *only* way of effectivly fighting a major fire in a skyscraper is a sprinkler system on each floor. (Even if both towers had stood at least the top third of each would have needed to be demolished...)
More to the point most of the proposed anti-terrorist measures best at worst be a minor inconvenice.
That's right. A minor inconvenience to everybody going around their lawful business but no inconvenience at all to terrorists.
Quite possibly a major inconvenience to people enguaged in lawful business. Since an organisation sending thousands of encrypted messages a day has a huge logistical problem if they have to change things suddenly.
The idea put around that they used cryptography is laughable. Any fool knows that if you're up to no good then you pre-arrange codewords in person beforehand ie. `We're organising a big party for Sept 11th do make sure you can make it.' or use dead letter drops and the like. I
Also you use code phrases which will *not* stand out as notable. They could just as easily said "let's meet up at the WTC on Tuesday morning" the kind of thing undoubtedly said by plenty of perfectly ordinary people.
saw `Panorama' last night and they were still peddling the cryptography myth.
Since most people don't encrypt their emails then if you are planning a terrorist action using emails then you don't want to encrypt yours. (If many people used encrypted email then you might well encrypt such emails.) Again the rule is not to stand out. The security services certainly should undrestand here, since they have exactly the same issues with their spies (and "terrorists").
BTW, I don't think the US fully realises yet that there's a very real threat from within. Timothy McVeigh wasn't the only US citizen to be
They are "full speed ahead never mind the torpedoes"...
upset by the shameful torture and killing of the Waco folks by the government.
Waco isn't an entirely unique situation either.
Whilst they concentrate on us sinister foreigners they don't realise
The list of foreigners who have plenty of reason to dislike the US (for reasons of interfering in their country) includesr people from most of South and Central America, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Saudi Arabia.
that they're being undermined from within. When you've got a prison population in excess of 2 million (mainly black & denied a vote), a
Even where people have a vote we had the utter farce of the last set of national US elections. Combined with a choice of "twiddledum" or "twiddledee" (at least as far as the mainstream media is concerned.)
large underclass living in poverty (mainly black again) and people denied basic healthcare, then something is going to eventually give.
Subsequent proposals for new powers are just panicky efforts by incompetents at stable-door shutting.
No, they're not that incompetent. It's a power grab under a pretence - pure & simple.
Most of the proposed ideas have been around for a long time, hence the conspiracy theories. (As well as having little to no relevance to "horses" or "stables".) But would you really expect the US (and for that matter the UK) governments to come clean and say "yes we have interfered with the functioning of other governments, including supporting dictators who were favourable to our business interests".
Of course they can't. If people knew what was really going on they'd be horrified and then the Western governments would have to change.
Hence the US being very reluctant to make a widescale deployment of it's own troops. Since the government fears that that would provoke civil protest.
Fortunately for them, they largely control the minds of their populace. They've used Pavlov's findings to their full extent when it comes to managing their recalcitrant populations and Mein Kampf must
Sky News refers to the whole thing about Afganistan as "Striking Back".
be required reading for them.
(Let alone seek new policies to both clean up the mess which has been created in the last 50 or so years or attempt to prevent the same thing happening in future.)
Maybe that's why the US government has a problem with effectivly punishing Microsoft. It sees something of itself in the way Microsoft does business.
I think the primary reason for not controlling MS is economic. If they allowed competition and hence encouraged open source software then their economy would be damaged immensely. If they allowed an open system such as Linux to get a foothold on the desktop then foreigners will get a look in. ATM all the big software houses are Yankee and they
But so are the majority of those who have been driven out of businesss by Microsoft's antics. So its by no means a sure thing that the current situation is benifical to the US economy.
want to keep it that way. After all, they don't want to create an even bigger disenfranchised underclass with the economic damage that would be wrought by punishing MS properly - that's just asking for trouble.
You may get that anyway, simply by allowing Micorsoft to move to a rental pricing model. Which would do econimic damage to companies who use software. (Wonder if software is covered by insurance too..)
I should think the NSA/CIA also quite likes the idea of a closed system produced by an American company on every foreigner's desktop.
Other governments however are wising up that this isn't the best thing for them... There is also the paradox that the GPL was invented by an American and has more in common with the US Constitution than things such as the DMCA.
We live in a democracy and the government pays most attention to the Daily Mail-reading voting bloc that is most likely to put a cross in the box.
If you think we live in some sort of democratic paradise where politicians listen to us then you're astoundingly naive. The Daily Mail and the rest of the Fleet St rags might aswell be written by 10 Downing St along with the BBC news etc. At least one Fleet St editor is
The BBC is (marginally) better than some. Though the UK media does generally appear to be a little more impartial and cynical than that in the US...
BBC domestic news is trash IMO, very often they can't even get the basic facts right or use the English language correctly. The World Service on the other hand is worth listening to. After all they can't lie to foreigners who are on the ground and who know what's actually happening there. As for Fleet St, the only one worth reading is the FT - follow the money and you can then put the pieces together & work out what's actually going on for yourself.
The American tv media is a complete waste of time as you imply. Foreign stories aren't reported to any extent and when they are only in the most stilted fashion ie. Johnny Foreigner bad, American heroes good. They concentrate on domestic issues pretty much exclusively ie. 6 months of speculation/`analysis' masquerading as news about whether Clinton had sex in the Oval office....well who cares? Probably not even Hilary.
Sounds like a good idea for a film, how about calling it "Wag the Dog"?
known to be an MI5 man.
Increases in security powers are meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade and not the sorts of thoughtful iconoclasts who read this list ;-). They are very little to do with "intellectual property" or, indeed, "jobs for the boys"---about which most individual MI6 employees probably couldn't give a toss. (I told you I was cynical.)
It's not meant to please the "something-must-be-done" brigade. It's
In a sense it is both, since it gives the illusion of those in authority doing something to address the "problem".
That's right. It's completely self-serving in that they define the `problem' and then supposedly `cure' it. The politicians create the "something-must-be-done" brigade themselves so they can push their own hidden agenda.
presented to us as meeting the publics demands for security as evidenced by the stories in the Daily Mail etc `reflecting public concern'. Only the terminally stupid give a damn about terrorists, paedophiles and the rest of the media created monsters lurking on the
As opposed to the media created monster of gangs of thugs terrorising housing estates...
A tried & tested propaganda technique is to keep the populace in perpetual fear - it's well known that this makes them more susceptible to brainwashing techniques. This is detailed in `Brave New World - Revisited' where Huxley mentions Mein Kampf as the seminal work on using it, and of course was described in Orwell's `1984'.
Problem is how do you make sure they fear the "right" thing.
Most people nowadays wont let their kids out of the house for fear of them being molested, killed etc. But the fact is that the likelihood of this happening is no more than it was 50 yrs ago but if you read the papers you'd think it was happening on every street corner every day of the week. Keeping them inside also has the handy side-effect of getting them to watch more of the crap on the TV that they pump out - crap about child molesters, killers, terrorists, cannibals, assorted sex maniacs & dope fiends on the loose, evil foreigners raping nuns and American heroes saving the world, all courtesy of Hollywood.
Quite often there is a real danger hidden by all the crying wolf. There is actually something which now kills and injures more children than it did 20 years ago. That is the car...
Sling the telly out & break this not so virtuous cycle is what I say. People have to start thinking for themselves rather than being told what to think - and by Americans of all people.
Anyway, the point of this posting (if there is any..) is to point out that the political system over here is pretty much as corrupt as the American system, after all we've got a `special' (dog/lamp-post)
Isn't it more like. Ronald/George/Bill/George: (To Maggie/John/Tony) "Jump!" Maggie/John/Tony: "How high?"
relationship with the Americans and if they've decided to go lightly on MS then they will over here too. This seems to be the case when you look at the OFT's response to Michael's letter.
I don't think they'll do the same in Europe though. The French for starters are fairly fiercely independent & they're obviously not happy
Problem is that the French can be so independany the rest of Europe might tend to ignore them :)
with an American monopoly being pushed down their throats & threatening their national security & industry. Nobody within the EU takes much notice of Blair & what he thinks - he's rightfully seen as a Washington lackey & stooge. The French & Germans now run the EU by default.
You just need to make sure they agree.
participants (4)
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Damian Counsell -
Frank Shute -
Ian -
Mark Evans