On Sat, 2003-05-10 at 23:49, Grahame Leon-Smith at Free Computers wrote:

Phil

Is this really true ? I cannot see why a school - any more than anyone else needs a symetrical Internet feed. No one uploads as much as they download. I am very concerned that many LEAs are forcing schools to join the regional Grids for Learning which are providing even primary schools with enormous pipes that they don't need but which cost thousands of pounds a year. It's all right for the first few years since the Government is paying,

Its not alright! That's my taxes!

but after that comes to an end . . . . !

We can offer the latest Satellite Broadband Internet via a normal Sky dish for less than the cost of ADSL (from £25 per month). It provides a 1Mb download (more if required) and you can continue to use your existing ISDN connection (and ISP)for the upload until the beginning of next year when the 2-way satellite transmission go live.

Anyone interested should just send a blank email to: satellitebroadband-subscribe@yahoogroups.com and I will keep them up to date with the latest developments.

Sounds interesting.

Regards, Grahame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Grahame Leon-Smith, Principal Consultant Tele-School Education Consultants Tel 01932-874067 Fax 01932-874068 mailto:grahame.leon-smith@tele-school.org

SATELLITE BROADBAND FROM £25 A MONTH 512K download - 9 times faster than a dial-up modem, 8 times faster than ISDN, available anywhere in the UK.

For further information just send a blank email to: < mailto:satellitebroadband-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message----- From: Phil Driscoll [mailto:phil@dialsolutions.co.uk] Sent: 05 May 2003 22:09 To: Suse-Linux-Uk-Schools Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] ADSL speeds into school

Oops - forgot to copy this to the list.

To the best of my knowledge, the government requires you to have a symmetric connection so ADSL is not an option unless it is impossible to get a symmetric connection. A ludicrous directive I know - as anyone who has ever metered their network traffic will agree!

Cheers

-- Phil Driscoll

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-- ian

On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 11:50, David Bowles wrote:

Now there's one aspect of downloading that I don't understand. Where I'm living now is so far from my local exchange (over 7KM) there is no way I could get broadband even if BT made my exchange broadband ready. Consequently I'm still using a bog standard V90 modem connection.

Here's my problem: Given that my connection to my ISP (Freeserve) runs at around 40Kbps, I'd expect this to be the main limiting factor when downloading files. As a consequence I'd expect the data-stream coming into my PC to approach 40Kbps at least part of the time (dead of night with both the UK and US fast asleep). In practice my download rates rarely get beyond half this figure. Most of the time it's far less than this than this no matter what sites I'm downloading from.

Can someone explain why this is so? Where is the real-world choke point, given that other users with ASDL can achieve far higher speeds downloading from the same sites? Is there any way around this, apart from upgrading to ISDN which will no doubt suffer from the same problem.

The difference between a 64k ISDN channel and a 56k modem is that the ISDN is 64k uncompressed whereas a modem achieves 56k by compressing the data. If you download something that is already optimally compressed, eg a Mpeg video, there is going to be no advantage in compressing the data again - in fact it could slow things down by wasting time trying to do the impossible! Try zipping an mpeg file and see how much smaller it gets. You can also find servers that are heavily loaded being a limiting factor too.

Finally, is there any way of getting my own or some other ISP to temporarily cache the files while I am downloading them. This would eliminate the time overhead of constantly having to negotiate packet requests over long distance multi-jump Internet connections.

Doubt this would make any significant difference to your current limits. ISDN will improve it but its expensive. The satellite system is probably worth looking into.

Thanks in advance,

David Bowles -- ian

I think that ALL schools (and libraries) should act as local community wireless nodes. So long as these networks are community owned the potential benefits from such a system could be huge for everyone. Other sites to check out (aprat from the already mentioned http://www.consume.net) are http://www.free2air.org and http://www.freenetworks.org Best, Josef Davies-Coates MJ Ray wrote:

David Bowles wrote:

...

I'm living now is so far from my local exchange (over 7KM) there is no way I could get broadband even if BT made my exchange broadband ready.

Remember: there are other ways to get high-speed access than ADSL and cable. A number of wireless networking projects are underway and more interested people are welcome at most of them. The largest project site is probably http://www.consume.net/

MJR

It's interesting that people are happy to put wireless networking into schools but not mobile radio masts (from which the schools can make revenue).

I'm happy with both. Note that portable phones are one or two watts, while wi-fi transmitters are about one-thirtieth of a watt, so if mobile phones are allowed then there's no argument against wi-fi.

On a personal note, I don't have a mobile phone.

We have six (with active SIM cards) between the four in my family, but we rarely use more than four at any one time ... -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd@felsted.essex.sch.uk

adrian.wells wrote:

It's interesting that people are happy to put wireless networking into schools but not mobile radio masts (from which the schools can make

When I raised this point in the past, I was rudely reminded that radio transmitters roughly follow a square law (half the distance is a quarter the power) and that major masts should be put as far away from people as possible. MJR

Is this really true ? I cannot see why a school - any more than anyone else needs a symetrical Internet feed.

Averall, and at present, I agree with you, but once the school becomes a "centre of learning" with a good quantity of information and active learning material on its own intranet server, then pupils will be accessing it from home ("anytime, anywhere"). So during evenings, weekends and holidays it will need high outgoing bandwidth. There are times in the holidays when we have more outgoing than incoming. -- Christopher Dawkins, Felsted School, Dunmow, Essex CM6 3JG 01371-822698, mobile 07816 821659 cchd@felsted.essex.sch.uk

On Sun, May 11, 2003 at 11:38:52AM +0100, ian wrote:

On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 11:17, Christopher Dawkins wrote:

...

...

Is this really true ? I cannot see why a school - any more than anyone else needs a symetrical Internet feed.

Averall, and at present, I agree with you, but once the school becomes a "centre of learning" with a good quantity of information and active learning material on its own intranet server, then pupils will be accessing it from home ("anytime, anywhere"). So during evenings, weekends and holidays it will need high outgoing bandwidth. There are times in the holidays when we have more outgoing than incoming.

Since the cost of the technologies falls its therefore sensible to only install what is needed when it is needed. You have such a situation now so your infrastructure is well matched to need. Its pretty inefficient

Especially since several of the RBC systems are intended more as a fast connection to surf the web than anything else. None of the things Chris has mentioned apparently ever having crossed the mind of whoever wrote the spec.

use of tax payers money to buy into expensive high level services that require either a long term fixed price commitment or will not get used to the full. Bit like buying the fastest possible processor for future-proofing when one that is marginally slower is half the price and the user really wouldn't notice the difference. Anyone can solve

By the time the "future" comes around there will be something several times the speed available anyway.

technical problems if money is no problem. The key is to get the solution/price equation right.

-- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763

On Sat, May 10, 2003 at 11:49:40PM +0100, Grahame Leon-Smith at Free Computers wrote:

Phil

Is this really true ? I cannot see why a school - any more than anyone else needs a symetrical Internet feed. No one uploads as much as they download.

Most likely because those making the desisions are too far removed from those actually operating the systems. A common complaint, in a great many forums, is that people actually running school networks (especially if they are not teachers) have little or no voice with LEAs or central government.

I am very concerned that many LEAs are forcing schools to join the regional Grids for Learning which are providing even primary schools with enormous pipes that they don't need but which cost thousands of pounds a year. It's

With the supposed benefits over the offerings of commercial ISPs appearing very overstated. With the odd bit of inane advice like "make sure if you have a local proxy it can cope with the traffic", when IME it's the RBC proxies which tend to suffer problems of overload.

all right for the first few years since the Government is paying, but after that comes to an end . . . . !

At which point you are likely to see schools starting to leave them, which won't help the LEA's who have signed up for long term contracts. -- Mark Evans St. Peter's CofE High School Phone: +44 1392 204764 X109 Fax: +44 1392 204763