July 2003 - openSUSE Edu - openSUSE Mailing Lists

Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Samba/Windows XP
by mailinglists＠admin.tregib.org.uk 04 Jul '03

04 Jul '03

>Sound very interesting. A set of bumper scripts that >sort it all out for the administrator? Setup >directories etc? The csv management sounds a great >help. Yes, I am planning to allow complete control via csv if required. Literally, drop a csv file into the appropriate share and any new users will be set up (along with all folders and links). Make an adjustment to a password and it will be reflected on the server within a few minutes. I realise this has certain security implications, but the option to use a database (Postgres/Mysql or anything else that Perl can chat with) will be offered and you will always be able to do things manually if you want to. >Am I right in thinking that once access to a .man >profile is set to 'Everyone', I can then copy it to >all profile directories (copying it using the linux >server command prompt) as I would with a 98 profile? That should work fine. However, the solution I use is to have a share called [profiles] with symbolic links for every user to the correct profile. In my case, I only use a staff or student profile, but you could create as many as you like. smb.conf then contains a line like \\%L\profiles\%U (a folder named [username] in the profiles share on the logon server). This approach has the advantage that changing a start menu entry (or whatever) in the profile itself automatically reflects across all users hooked up to that profile. >So, Nial... it *can* be done, and I *can* recommend >Samba as a PDC for XP to our senior management team. >I'm very pleased with it as a PDC for Win98 and very >familiar with profiles and policies for that, just >wasn't sure I could say "Yes" to XP. My policy is always to get things working on the bench before I recommend them [g], but yes, it does work and I've been really impressed with the reliability that the XP/samba combo delivers. In fact, you are welcome to come down and see it in action if you want to (pending approval from TPTB, although I don't anticipate any problems), All the best, Nial.

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Inadequate IT Support (was Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT)
by Chris Puttick 04 Jul '03

04 Jul '03

Sorry for the dragging of this thread further away from the original subject, but... The problem is this: IT is a high knowledge profession, and the competent, experienced people within it command fairly large salaries. Schools have traditionally not employed IT people from this category, and while some have still been lucky enough to get IT staff with potential, once these staff realise their potential, they almost invariably move on. This results in little or no continuity in even the best cases, and the final result in the majority of schools is poor quality IT solutions, where problems are normal, rather than the exception. I hasten to point out that (i) there are some exceptions and (ii) there are a lot more cases where schools tell me they have good IT solutions in place which turn out to be not good at all and/or only relatively good (as in relative to other schools in the area). The point is this: it is no harder to install, maintain or configure a Linux/open source solution than a Windows or Mac one. It just looks harder... There's an assumption that because someone can configure their home Windows PC, they'll be quite capable of designing, installing, configuring, maintaining and managing a Windows based network with 1200 users on 300 machines, 8 servers running 20 essential services including email, web, AV, firewall, desktop control, printing management, MIS and any number of poorly written and documented specialist applications. But if it's not Windows, then they won't be able to. Fact: both the above assumptions have no basis in reality. Good IT solutions are not bought, they're made. And made by people who have the capability to do so, rather than just lucky. This is why outside of education, the salaries paid to IT people mark it out as a highly paid occupation. Sensibly enough, few of the highly paid and respected IT professionals from outside education are tempted by a 50% cut in salary and a 100% reduction in status (there are a few naive ones who felt that money wasn't everything and assumed that their professional standing would always command the respect of their work colleagues - but then they start work in the school ;-) ). Before anyone assumes that this is just bitterness, after 3 years I have managed to comfortably demonstrate that a school that allows itself to be guided in its IT strategy by people with sufficient knowledge and interest to do so spend less and gain more; enough that my salary and that of at least some members of my team is now enough to discourage a move (back) to the commercial sector. What's actually driving this mini-essay is that over and over again I hear of or experience incredibly misguided IT decisions that cost the school/LEA much money and time, which then cost more money to fix. Much time is thus spent without an effective IT solution to aid the department/school/LEA in delivering high quality information systems that effectively support management or teaching and learning. Teachers in particular then become very disillusioned with IT, and start to assume it's a burden rather than a boon. The change that is desperately needed in education in the UK is the involvement of quality IT staff at the highest level; people who schools can turn to for, and receive from, useful, informed and independent advice about the best way to achieve high returns from the IT investment. The sad thing is that this is rarely available - the advice source is either not knowledgeable or financially biased to a particular product set. I've just been interviewed for a Masters dissertation on the use of open source software in schools. One of the questions was "Do you think the money provided by the government for schools IT has been sufficient to achieve the targets set?" My instant answer, "No... But it should have been." Cheers Chris -----Original Message----- From: David Bowles To: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 7/4/03 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT My observations are all based on my own experience plus some input form ICT professionals and teachers working in the school education field. <snip> However what's going to make the biggest difference to Open Source use in education is the availability of high quality closely integrated open-source systems software, applications and courseware that's simple to install, configure and maintain. Possibly the three biggest potential niches are these; 1. Samba / Linux based servers initially used as standby devices or to increase network reliability and availability of school networks -- a big issue in many schools where downtimes of up to a whole month are not uncommon! Once ICT staff see and understand the benefits of Open Source based server solutions they may be more inclined to abandon Microsoft based solutions. 2. Many schools have got lots of slow old hardware kicking around. Furthermore, many schools can easily acquire lots more low- or no- cost hardware thrown out by upgrading commercial organisations. So there is a niche for 'thin client' Linux / Open Source server and client systems software and applications. 3. Maybe the biggest niche is for Open Source office applications and courseware that students can run on their home PCs. Many home PCs also don't have a full office suite installed on them, so there is a need for an 'Open Office' based students distribution that might / might not also include Linux. Furthermore a considerable proportion of students still don't have access to a home PC -- or only severely restricted access. Maybe when schools upgrade they can could supply their PCless students with a Linux / Open Office based PC. Overall, the biggest problem I see for Open Source in schools is the initial 'getting the foot in the door'. What the Open Source movement really needs is some 'must have killer application' that starts teachers and school ICT staff on their journey up the Open Source learning curve. David Bowles Education Support / TeacherLab

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by E Lea 04 Jul '03

04 Jul '03

Thomas Adam wrote: > I cannot comment from a teaching point of view, but I certainly feel > that Microsoft do have a de facto dominance in schools. This is not something that is generally school specific > I am 20 and > throughout all my school life (and even now at University), everything > we do one computers (or have done), has been centred around Microsoft. > We are almost forced to use it, and given no alternative unless we go > and look for one. > > Bringing school children into IT (as is the government's initiative) > means that they should be made aware of Linux, I disagree. I don't think forcing Linux onto school children is going to help anything. Reducing the problem down to the common Linux advocacy arguement of Windows == Bad, Linux == Good is misguided. For children to be truely IT aware their awareness needs to be platform independent; and I don't mean teach them all Java. There are so many more platforms out there than Windows and Linux. A lot of people in the Linux world are (and have been for many years) predicting that Windows can't carry on as we know it much longer, and in the next 15 years or less won't exist at all. Whether this is true or not it would be arrogant to assume that Linux will exist in its place. I agree that making children aware of Linux is a good thing, but chosing Linux purely for the sake of Linux is not the solution. Ideally IT would be taugh in schools at some abstract level giving children a skills set they can apply to what ever platform is put in front of them. Obviously that's not going to happen and as things stand it probably is true that Linux is the best, non-Microsoft alternative for the classroom > I cannot stress to you just how annoyed I am when even now > some of my lecturers at University stipulate categorically that they > want our assignments in MS-Word format. It is a farce -- and to think > that I am doing a degree in Software Engineering. You'd think that they'd > expand your knowledge of computer OS's. I find this very surprising indeed. Which University do you go to?

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by John Ingleby 04 Jul '03

04 Jul '03

Terry, I think you're missing the point. Because free software costs next to nothing, and is available from many sources, there is no marketing budget to spend on promoting the case. On the other hand, vendors of proprietary software spend vast amounts on pervasive and effective advertising, so we find that decisions are made on the basis of commonly-held beliefs, rather than on value for money, technical capabilities, and educational requirements. It's only by individuals hammering on about the way these decisions are taken, and making use of the fair trading laws, that there is any hope of freeing up some of the money being spent on unnecessary "upgrades", and putting it to better educational use. John Ingleby ************ On Thu, 2003-07-03 at 23:54, Terry Taylor wrote: > Are you telling us, therefore, that the exam boards are collaborating with > Microsoft to shut out the competition? Furthermore, are you telling us that > they are all doing this together? That would be a first! > > I go back to my original point - schools/colleges are not forced to offer > those courses. You are saying that it is the effect of the action which is > important and obviously one cannot disagree with that, but you add that > 'fault doesn't come into it'. If this is the case then there is nobody to > target for action. On the other hand, if we take the usual stance that the > effect has to be caused by something, then that something is a result of > Boards offering the syllabi, the government agencies passing them, and > schools and colleges using them, so they are the groups 'at fault' (meaning > they are producing an effect which you say is wrong). Where does Microsoft > come into this equation? -- John Ingleby <john(a)coronet.co.uk>

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by Chris Puttick 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Is the app that good? -----Original Message----- From: Gary Stainburn To: derek(a)lagham.uklinux.net; Richard Rothwell Cc: suse-linux-uk-schools(a)suse.com Sent: 7/2/03 3:42 PM Subject: Re: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT On Wednesday 02 Jul 2003 2:58 pm, Derek Harding wrote: [snip] > inexpertise in. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Love this, gonna remember that one. Just for the record, it's not just schools that have this problem. We're just in the process of upgrading 120 Win95 boxes to WinXP (hate it) just so that we can access a web based application. We have no choice, we have to do it to be able to access the service, and nothing below XP wil work (read nothing below XP will be supported cos they've got a very small and narrow-minded support desk and even more narrow minded development team). great eh? -- Gary Stainburn This email does not contain private or confidential material as it may be snooped on by interested government parties for unknown and undisclosed purposes - Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, 2000 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-unsubscribe(a)suse.com For additional commands, e-mail: suse-linux-uk-schools-help(a)suse.com

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Off Topic but..... Old text books
by Alan Harris 03 Jul '03

03 Jul '03

Hi all, Anybody out there know of any organisations interested in re-cycling unwanted NC English text books? if so then please let me know. many thanks Alan P.S. - Richard - are you going to include Capita SIMS in your investigations?

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by Robb Bloomfield 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

> Some of the Open University courses have this approach too depending > or not on whether they allow electronic assignment submission 'Tis true, but then they even refuse to support the Macintosh :( Although to be fair, the reason for doing this is so that they can mark it electronically. And it also means that you get extra time to do it, as you don't have to allow for the post :) And it was a god send on my Smalltalk course... :) -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)

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Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by ian 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

Just to get back to the issue :-)If you want Richard to have a chance of doing something he needs evidence. eg Issue University/exam board insist on us using a proprietary format to submit work or in exam questions. Why its anti-competitive This prevents us using OO.org/Lotus/Wordperfect when there is no good reason not to. This increases our costs. Solution. Standardise public funded activities such as setting exam questions on open standards eg XML. If the requirement is an open standard, a range of software tools can be used. If OO.org writer is chosen as the standard, its free so there is no pressure to buy something from a commercial organisation. Just E-mail Richard with some concrete evidence from your own institution and get anyone else you know who can do this to do the same. -- ian <ian.lynch2(a)ntlworld.com>

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by Grainge, Derek 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

In the OU's case it's because they have an automated marking tool which is a word-based application - so they will accept files which are compatible; that includes some but not all versions of word, plus RTF. The limiting factor is the skill of the Tutors who are expected to mark the work: some are willing to accept a wide range of formats and are happy to convert. But we all know the risks of work which is highly formatted by students being converted to another format. So the OU tends to be a bit nannyish about it. -----Original Message----- > Some of the Open University courses have this approach too depending or > not on > whether they allow electronic assignment submission -- ******************************************************************************** All mail sent and received may be examined to prevent transmission of unacceptable material. Wellington College does not accept responsibility for email contents. Problems to postmaster(a)wellington-college.berks.sch.uk. Website: http://www.wellington-college.berks.sch.uk ********************************************************************************

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RE: [suse-linux-uk-schools] Microsoft and Exam Boards and the OFT
by Robb Bloomfield 02 Jul '03

02 Jul '03

> Some of the Open University courses have this approach too depending > or not on whether they allow electronic assignment submission 'Tis true, but then they even refuse to support the Macintosh :( Although to be fair, the reason for doing this is so that they can mark it electronically. And it also means that you get extra time to do it, as you don't have to allow for the post :) And it was a god send on my Smalltalk course... :) -- Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)

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