Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Michal Vyskocil

3 Jun 2009 3 Jun '09

15:09

Hi all, Even if there is probably no one who reads opensuse-contrib and not opensuse- factory, I'd like to inform you about Henne's proposal about opening of Factory [1]. It will have an impact on Contrib repository, because it does not make a sense to have two identical projects for openSUSE. So it's important to start a discuss about future of Contrib too. So from my POW, we have those possibilities: 1.) use the Contrib as one of devel projects for Factory 2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory 3.) redefine a Contrib as a respository with less strict maintenance rules (eg. the "famous" version upgrades), because even if the Factory will be opened for community, every package must be maintained for cca 2 years (that means, three openSUSE releases + Factory). And community is not really interested on it. But this is just my POW, so your ideas are very welcome. [1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-06/msg00036.html Best regards Michal Vyskocil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

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Marek Stopka

3 Jun 3 Jun

15:15

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...

Hi all,

Even if there is probably no one who reads opensuse-contrib and not opensuse- factory, I'd like to inform you about Henne's proposal about opening of Factory [1]. It will have an impact on Contrib repository, because it does not make a sense to have two identical projects for openSUSE. So it's important to start a discuss about future of Contrib too.

So from my POW, we have those possibilities: 1.) use the Contrib as one of devel projects for Factory 2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory 3.) redefine a Contrib as a respository with less strict maintenance rules (eg. the "famous" version upgrades), because even if the Factory will be opened for community, every package must be maintained for cca 2 years (that means, three openSUSE releases + Factory). And community is not really interested on it.

But this is just my POW, so your ideas are very welcome.

[1] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2009-06/msg00036.html

Rolling update Contrib sounds cool :-) And yes, there is someone who don't have a time to read Factory list and have time to read contrib list :) So thanks for info :)

...

Best regards Michal Vyskocil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

-- S pozdravem / Best regards Marek Stopka openSUSE community member Kontakty / Contacts Mobil/Cell phone: +420 774 59 79 40 E-mail: mstopka@opensuse.org WEB: www.m4r3k.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

15:43

On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 05:09:59PM +0200, Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...

Hi all,

Even if there is probably no one who reads opensuse-contrib and not opensuse- factory, I'd like to inform you about Henne's proposal about opening of Factory [1]. It will have an impact on Contrib repository, because it does not make a sense to have two identical projects for openSUSE. So it's important to start a discuss about future of Contrib too.

So from my POW, we have those possibilities: 1.) use the Contrib as one of devel projects for Factory

No.

...

2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

This can be done, but I guess we do not want everything in Factory.

...

3.) redefine a Contrib as a respository with less strict maintenance rules (eg. the "famous" version upgrades), because even if the Factory will be opened for community, every package must be maintained for cca 2 years (that means, three openSUSE releases + Factory). And community is not really interested on it.

I would say we still need a "Other" repository for the stuff that won't get into Factory and Contrib is still well suited for it. Stuff can be moved over or not, but there will be a need for it.

...

But this is just my POW, so your ideas are very welcome.

Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Pavol Rusnak

16:10

Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

...
So from my POW, we have those possibilities: 1.) use the Contrib as one of devel projects for Factory

No.

Agreed.

...

...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

This can be done, but I guess we do not want everything in Factory.

Agreed.

...

...
3.) redefine a Contrib as a respository with less strict maintenance rules (eg. the "famous" version upgrades), because even if the Factory will be opened for community, every package must be maintained for cca 2 years (that means, three openSUSE releases + Factory). And community is not really interested on it.

I would say we still need a "Other" repository for the stuff that won't get into Factory and Contrib is still well suited for it.

I think that Contrib with version upgrades is a way to go. There were some people that wanted to help with Contrib, but dropped when they realized that no version upgrades were allowed there. -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o Package Maintainer Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9, CR prusnak[at]suse.cz http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Alexey Eremenko

16:31

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

...

2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

I choose this. Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. -- -Alexey Eromenko "Technologov" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

16:37

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Hi, darn you Michal i thought i could have a quick trip home/dinner in between the mails to -factory and -contrib. You where way to fast! ;) Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this! Henne -- http://opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Michal Vyskocil

4 Jun 4 Jun

06:36

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

darn you Michal i thought i could have a quick trip home/dinner in between the mails to -factory and -contrib. You where way to fast! ;)

Sorry, but I'm glad that you sent the proposal to Factory, so we could start to discuss about this repository asap. ;-)

...

Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

I don't like the term "Beginners Repository". Contrib should be an equivalent of Ubuntu's universe [1] - repository with no guarantee of support. In Factory we guarantee (at least) security updates for almost 2 years, which must be backended by someone from Novell. And community maintainers are not interested in something like backporting of patches to 2 years old piece of software running on 2 years old distribution, so this will be probably done by Novell employers. So instead of changing of existing rules for Factory, we could have Novell supported Factory and community based Contrib with no guarantee of support and no required Novell backend in case of troubles. [1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components Best regards Michal Vyskocil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Josef Reidinger

06:47

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...

On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Hi,

darn you Michal i thought i could have a quick trip home/dinner in between the mails to -factory and -contrib. You where way to fast! ;)

Sorry, but I'm glad that you sent the proposal to Factory, so we could start to discuss about this repository asap. ;-)

...
Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

I don't like the term "Beginners Repository". Contrib should be an equivalent of Ubuntu's universe [1] - repository with no guarantee of support.

In Factory we guarantee (at least) security updates for almost 2 years, which must be backended by someone from Novell. And community maintainers are not interested in something like backporting of patches to 2 years old piece of software running on 2 years old distribution, so this will be probably done by Novell employers.

So instead of changing of existing rules for Factory, we could have Novell supported Factory and community based Contrib with no guarantee of support and no required Novell backend in case of troubles.

[1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components

Best regards Michal Vyskocil

I think that this solution is good. I think that main target of contrib is join each user's home repositories to one central when users can find not-supported software. So in home repositories is only testing alpha and beta release of software and in contrib is stable things, but without guarantee of quick bug fix as in official factory repository. Josef -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Vladimir Nadvornik

08:58

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On čt 4. června 2009, Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...

On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Hi,

darn you Michal i thought i could have a quick trip home/dinner in between the mails to -factory and -contrib. You where way to fast! ;)

Sorry, but I'm glad that you sent the proposal to Factory, so we could start to discuss about this repository asap. ;-)

...
Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

I don't like the term "Beginners Repository". Contrib should be an equivalent of Ubuntu's universe [1] - repository with no guarantee of support.

In Factory we guarantee (at least) security updates for almost 2 years, which must be backended by someone from Novell. And community maintainers are not interested in something like backporting of patches to 2 years old piece of software running on 2 years old distribution, so this will be probably done by Novell employers.

I'd say that maintaining a package in Factory means a commitment to provide security fixes that don't break compatibility - i.e. backporting of patches. This rule should be valid for whole community, including Novell as a part of the community.

...

So instead of changing of existing rules for Factory, we could have Novell supported Factory and community based Contrib with no guarantee of support and no required Novell backend in case of troubles.

IMHO security bugs should be fixed for contrib too, but it is a big difference in the required time and/or knowledges to fix the bug by version upgrade or by backporting the patch.

...

[1] http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components

Best regards Michal Vyskocil

Vladimir -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

09:25

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Hi, on 06/04/2009 08:36 AM Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...

On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

I don't like the term "Beginners Repository". Contrib should be an equivalent of Ubuntu's universe [1] - repository with no guarantee of support.

Of course we could.

...

In Factory we guarantee (at least) security updates for almost 2 years, which must be backended by someone from Novell.

The last part is not true anymore. It must be backed by someone from the openSUSE project's team that maintains this package.

...

And community maintainers are not interested in something like backporting of patches to 2 years old piece of software running on 2 years old distribution, so this will be probably done by Novell employers.

A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

...

So instead of changing of existing rules for Factory, we could have Novell supported Factory and community based Contrib with no guarantee of support and no required Novell backend in case of troubles.

Again: There is no required backend from Novell for Factory. This is, after the bundling of devel projects, the second big thing we are about to change. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Petr Uzel

10:08

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:25:02AM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

on 06/04/2009 08:36 AM Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...
On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

Well, not only beginners, but also some of the experienced packagers do not want to submit their packages to current Contrib, because they do not want/don't have time to do maintenance updates like we do in Factory.

...

...
I don't like the term "Beginners Repository". Contrib should be an equivalent of Ubuntu's universe [1] - repository with no guarantee of support.

Of course we could.

...
In Factory we guarantee (at least) security updates for almost 2 years, which must be backended by someone from Novell.

The last part is not true anymore. It must be backed by someone from the openSUSE project's team that maintains this package.

...
And community maintainers are not interested in something like backporting of patches to 2 years old piece of software running on 2 years old distribution, so this will be probably done by Novell employers.

A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products.

I think we all agree on this.

...

No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

ACK as well. But why not provide something with less strict policy (yes, I mean Contrib), but which still has at least some rules and is IMO much more usable than spread ad-hoc home:* projects with unknown quality?

...

...
So instead of changing of existing rules for Factory, we could have Novell supported Factory and community based Contrib with no guarantee of support and no required Novell backend in case of troubles.

Again: There is no required backend from Novell for Factory. This is, after the bundling of devel projects, the second big thing we are about to change.

Henne

-- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, Packages maintainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 964 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Lynn Gerber

21:03

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Petr Uzel wrote:

...

On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:25:02AM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
on 06/04/2009 08:36 AM Michal Vyskocil wrote:

...
On Wednesday 03 of June 2009 18:37:10 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory. I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. That was my argument as well. The best idea i heard so far for Contrib after the opening of Factory was to use it as a kind of Beginners Repository. For packagers that don't want to have the huge burden of the strict maintenance policy (which might get revised in

Alexey Eremenko wrote: the future) that Factory has. I'm all for this!

Well, not only beginners, but also some of the experienced packagers do not want to submit their packages to current Contrib, because they do not want/don't have time to do maintenance updates like we do in Factory.

+1, I think contrib should be a place for the packages that do not have Novell support and the requirments are not as strict. I do think it should be branched at each openSUSE release. I do like the idea of rolling releases with in each branched release. I do see this as an openSUSE equiv of the Ubuntu's univers[1]. ...

...

...
A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products.

I think we all agree on this.

...

...
No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

ACK as well. But why not provide something with less strict policy (yes, I mean Contrib), but which still has at least some rules and is IMO much more usable than spread ad-hoc home:* projects with unknown quality?

I think it should be the same similar rules like we have now. As has been discussed in this thread. -- Boyd Gerber 801 849-0213 ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

10 Jun 10 Jun

13:41

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

...

A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

I really would like to have that written down and signed off by new maintainers. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:46

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Hi, on 06/10/2009 03:41 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

...
A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

I really would like to have that written down and signed off by new maintainers.

What do you mean by this? Written down on paper and signed or what process do you have in mind? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

13:46

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:46:02PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

on 06/10/2009 03:41 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
...
A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer.

I really would like to have that written down and signed off by new maintainers.

What do you mean by this? Written down on paper and signed or what process do you have in mind?

At least "clicked off" or something, so people cannot refuse knowledge of this fact. Paper is not necessary I guess. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:50

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

Hi, on 06/10/2009 03:46 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:46:02PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
on 06/10/2009 03:41 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
...
A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer. I really would like to have that written down and signed off by new maintainers. What do you mean by this? Written down on paper and signed or what process do you have in mind?

At least "clicked off" or something, so people cannot refuse knowledge of this fact. Paper is not necessary I guess.

How would this work? You have to be a bit more verbose then one sentence at a time dude :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

13:53

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:50:53PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

on 06/10/2009 03:46 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:46:02PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
on 06/10/2009 03:41 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
...
A maintainer is a maintainer is a maintainer. Currently the tasks of a maintainer for a package in Factory includes maintenance for released products. No matter if he is employed by Novell or not. If someone does not want to do this then he can't become a maintainer. I really would like to have that written down and signed off by new maintainers. What do you mean by this? Written down on paper and signed or what process do you have in mind?

At least "clicked off" or something, so people cannot refuse knowledge of this fact. Paper is not necessary I guess.

How would this work? You have to be a bit more verbose then one sentence at a time dude :)

I have no idea. And thinking on it, we cannot "force" non-Novell employees to do work for us at any time. So forget above, just thinking not in the right paths. However, every Novell employees under Topic Group members need to be aware that we need to deliver 18 months of security updates. And Maintenance/Security needs to have someone who is responsible for fixes post-11.2 GA release.... This might become more difficult than it is now. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

13:40

On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:31:02PM +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

There likely will still be a limit to the number of packages going into Factory. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:44

Hi, on 06/10/2009 03:40 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:31:02PM +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

There likely will still be a limit to the number of packages going into Factory.

Can you elaborate what you mean? Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Marcus Meissner

13:46

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:44:54PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

Hi,

on 06/10/2009 03:40 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:31:02PM +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib.

There likely will still be a limit to the number of packages going into Factory.

Can you elaborate what you mean?

For instance packages with bad security reputation will not go in, like "proftpd" or packages that are otherwise unmaintainable. Ciao, Marcus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:52

Hi, on 06/10/2009 03:46 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...

On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 03:44:54PM +0200, Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...
on 06/10/2009 03:40 PM Marcus Meissner wrote:

...
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:31:02PM +0200, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...
...
2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory I choose this.

Contrib was created especially because Factory people disallow community to maintain openSUSE packages. Since the original problem is gone, there is no point of having contrib. There likely will still be a limit to the number of packages going into Factory. Can you elaborate what you mean?

For instance packages with bad security reputation will not go in, like "proftpd" or packages that are otherwise unmaintainable.

Of course. Every topic group should have things like these in mind and its in their own interest do not do such a thing. After all they would be responsible. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Petr Uzel

3 Jun 3 Jun

16:41

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future of Factory/Contrib

On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:10:30PM +0200, Pavol Rusnak wrote:

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Marcus Meissner wrote:

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So from my POW, we have those possibilities: 1.) use the Contrib as one of devel projects for Factory

No.

Agreed.

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2.) drop Contrib and move all packages to appropiate devel project and Factory

This can be done, but I guess we do not want everything in Factory.

Agreed.

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3.) redefine a Contrib as a respository with less strict maintenance rules (eg. the "famous" version upgrades), because even if the Factory will be opened for community, every package must be maintained for cca 2 years (that means, three openSUSE releases + Factory). And community is not really interested on it.

I would say we still need a "Other" repository for the stuff that won't get into Factory and Contrib is still well suited for it.

I think that Contrib with version upgrades is a way to go. There were some people that wanted to help with Contrib, but dropped when they realized that no version upgrades were allowed there.

I have the same opinion - make Contrib a repository with less strict rules than Factory has. If we decide to go this way, I see two 'subpossibilities' : 3a) freeze/branch Contrib when new openSUSE release is out (i.e. openSUSE:11.1:Contrib), but allow version upgrades if there's a bug or 3b) do not branch Contrib at all, but build it for older openSUSE versions (like we are now building for 11.1). What do you think? -- Best regards / s pozdravem Petr Uzel, Packages maintainer --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: puzel@suse.cz Lihovarská 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 964 190 00 Prague 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Dominique Leuenberger

17:12

New subject: Fwd: [opensuse-factory] The Future ofFactory/Contrib

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On 6/3/2009 at 6:41 PM, Petr Uzel wrote: 3a) freeze/branch Contrib when new openSUSE release is out (i.e. openSUSE:11.1:Contrib), but allow version upgrades if there's a bug

or

3b) do not branch Contrib at all, but build it for older openSUSE versions (like we are now building for 11.1).

I somewhat like 3b, BUT: - It has to be sure that none of the base libraries are ever to be updated in Contrib. This means at worst to not supply another update for an older distro. Example: We have App X, 1.0, which requires libfoo, minimal version 1.2. libfoo >= 1.2 is provided from, let's say openSUSE 11.1 on. 11.2 already contains libfoo 1.3.2 AppX is updated to 1.2, which now introduces a minimum dependency to libfoo >= 1.3. In this case I would prefer not to have AppX provided in the new version for openSUSE 11.1, as we'd need to update some base libfoo from openSUSE. Contrib should stay as an addon to openSUSE <release>/<factory> and not replace anything from the base system. this gives only headaches for community supporters. Dominique -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Vladimir Nadvornik

17:35

Hi, On st 3. června 2009, Petr Uzel wrote:

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On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:10:30PM +0200, Pavol Rusnak wrote:

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I think that Contrib with version upgrades is a way to go. There were some people that wanted to help with Contrib, but dropped when they realized that no version upgrades were allowed there.

I have the same opinion - make Contrib a repository with less strict rules than Factory has.

If we decide to go this way, I see two 'subpossibilities' :

3a) freeze/branch Contrib when new openSUSE release is out (i.e. openSUSE:11.1:Contrib), but allow version upgrades if there's a bug

I'd vote for this.

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or

3b) do not branch Contrib at all, but build it for older openSUSE versions (like we are now building for 11.1).

IMHO the smaller devel projects are more suitable for this. I'd expect that packages built for multiple distros at once won't be tested that good on older distros. Pushing such packages to end users via generic repository is quite dangerous. Vladimir -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Michal Seben

4 Jun 4 Jun

08:12

Vladimir Nadvornik wrote:

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Hi,

On st 3. června 2009, Petr Uzel wrote:

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On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:10:30PM +0200, Pavol Rusnak wrote:

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I think that Contrib with version upgrades is a way to go. There were some people that wanted to help with Contrib, but dropped when they realized that no version upgrades were allowed there.

I have the same opinion - make Contrib a repository with less strict rules than Factory has.

If we decide to go this way, I see two 'subpossibilities' :

3a) freeze/branch Contrib when new openSUSE release is out (i.e. openSUSE:11.1:Contrib), but allow version upgrades if there's a bug

I'd vote for this.

looks best also for me, but, what's the scenario of bugfix for cases, when we could't do upgrades e.g. due to library dependencies against the base system (e.g. openSUSE11.1) ? I think this must be handled by novell employees ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Michal Vyskocil

08:57

On Thursday 04 of June 2009 10:12:45 Michal Seben wrote:

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Vladimir Nadvornik wrote:

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Hi,

On st 3. června 2009, Petr Uzel wrote:

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On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 06:10:30PM +0200, Pavol Rusnak wrote:

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I think that Contrib with version upgrades is a way to go. There were some people that wanted to help with Contrib, but dropped when they realized that no version upgrades were allowed there.

I have the same opinion - make Contrib a repository with less strict rules than Factory has.

If we decide to go this way, I see two 'subpossibilities' :

3a) freeze/branch Contrib when new openSUSE release is out (i.e. openSUSE:11.1:Contrib), but allow version upgrades if there's a bug

I'd vote for this.

looks best also for me, but, what's the scenario of bugfix for cases, when we could't do upgrades e.g. due to library dependencies against the base system (e.g. openSUSE11.1) ? I think this must be handled by novell employees ...

Isn't it the situation why we have the Shared Library Policy? If the new version of package needs the libfoo1.2, but we have only libfoo1.1 in released product, we could add the libfoo1_2 package to released Contrib. But it depends, because if the new version will require a half of newest KDE or Gnome, it would be better to not do it in Contrib ;-). Regards Michal Vyskocil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Daniel Fuhrmann

06:00

Am Mittwoch, 3. Juni 2009 17:09:59 schrieb Michal Vyskocil: What is with the packages from the XXX:factory projects after a Release that dont find their way into oficcial repos? Will they be send to contrib? For this we only have contrib for released distro. Or you create XXX:contrib:factory repos for all less strict rules packkages, and you can easy move tha packages from xxx:factory to xxx:contrib:factory and back. Daniel -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

Michal Vyskocil

06:40

On Thursday 04 of June 2009 08:00:20 Daniel Fuhrmann wrote:

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Am Mittwoch, 3. Juni 2009 17:09:59 schrieb Michal Vyskocil:

What is with the packages from the XXX:factory projects after a Release that dont find their way into oficcial repos? Will they be send to contrib?

That depends if Contrib will survive the Factory opening :)

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For this we only have contrib for released distro. Or you create XXX:contrib:factory repos for all less strict rules packkages, and you can easy move tha packages from xxx:factory to xxx:contrib:factory and back.

The current openSUSE:Contrib:Factory would be copied to openSUSE:Contrib:11.2 after release of 11.2 and the openSUSE:Contrib:Factory remains for development. Regards Michal Vyskocil -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-contrib+help@opensuse.org

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13 participants

participants (13)

Alexey Eremenko
Boyd Lynn Gerber
Daniel Fuhrmann
Dominique Leuenberger
Henne Vogelsang
Josef Reidinger
Marcus Meissner
Marek Stopka
Michal Seben
Michal Vyskocil
Pavol Rusnak
Petr Uzel
Vladimir Nadvornik