[opensuse-buildservice] BuildService and the :
Hello, I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side. Wouldn't it be better to introduce "/" in it's full meaning? The repositories are already stored hierarchical on the download servers. Having the same in the buildservice would be nice. E.G. my home:dstoecker:perl would be nice to have as link perl in home:dstoecker. (or better home/dstoecker/perl). I know that would probably be a bigger change right now, but it would make the buildservice compatible to the general Unix path conventions. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday, 10. May 2007 08:41, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
Hello,
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Wouldn't it be better to introduce "/" in it's full meaning? The repositories are already stored hierarchical on the download servers. Having the same in the buildservice would be nice. E.G. my home:dstoecker:perl would be nice to have as link perl in home:dstoecker. (or better home/dstoecker/perl).
I know that would probably be a bigger change right now, but it would make the buildservice compatible to the general Unix path conventions.
This would cause problems with the URIs of the API. Consider the resource http://api/source/home/bauersman/test/_meta You can't tell if it adresses the metadata of the project home/bauersman/test or of the package test below the project home/bauersman.
Ciao
Andreas -- Andreas Bauer - Novell - SUSE Internal Tools --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Andreas Bauer wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Wouldn't it be better to introduce "/" in it's full meaning? The repositories are already stored hierarchical on the download servers. Having the same in the buildservice would be nice. E.G. my home:dstoecker:perl would be nice to have as link perl in home:dstoecker. (or better home/dstoecker/perl).
I know that would probably be a bigger change right now, but it would make the buildservice compatible to the general Unix path conventions.
This would cause problems with the URIs of the API. Consider the resource
http://api/source/home/bauersman/test/_meta
You can't tell if it adresses the metadata of the project home/bauersman/test or of the package test below the project home/bauersman.
Is it necessary to allow a subproject and a package to have the same name? I think not. Would confuse anyway. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday, 10. May 2007 10:29, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Andreas Bauer wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Wouldn't it be better to introduce "/" in it's full meaning? The repositories are already stored hierarchical on the download servers. Having the same in the buildservice would be nice. E.G. my home:dstoecker:perl would be nice to have as link perl in home:dstoecker. (or better home/dstoecker/perl).
I know that would probably be a bigger change right now, but it would make the buildservice compatible to the general Unix path conventions.
This would cause problems with the URIs of the API. Consider the resource
http://api/source/home/bauersman/test/_meta
You can't tell if it adresses the metadata of the project home/bauersman/test or of the package test below the project home/bauersman.
Is it necessary to allow a subproject and a package to have the same name? I think not. Would confuse anyway.
No of course not. What I meant was, with your proposal, you can't tell from looking at the URI alone what type of resource you're addressing. Even worse, the meaning of the resource behind an URI can change over time, if a subproject is deleted and a package with the same name is created.
Ciao
-- Andreas Bauer - Novell - SUSE Internal Tools --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Andreas Bauer wrote:
On Thursday, 10. May 2007 10:29, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Andreas Bauer wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Wouldn't it be better to introduce "/" in it's full meaning? The repositories are already stored hierarchical on the download servers. Having the same in the buildservice would be nice. E.G. my home:dstoecker:perl would be nice to have as link perl in home:dstoecker. (or better home/dstoecker/perl).
I know that would probably be a bigger change right now, but it would make the buildservice compatible to the general Unix path conventions.
This would cause problems with the URIs of the API. Consider the resource
http://api/source/home/bauersman/test/_meta
You can't tell if it adresses the metadata of the project home/bauersman/test or of the package test below the project home/bauersman.
Is it necessary to allow a subproject and a package to have the same name? I think not. Would confuse anyway.
No of course not. What I meant was, with your proposal, you can't tell from looking at the URI alone what type of resource you're addressing. Even worse, the meaning of the resource behind an URI can change over time, if a subproject is deleted and a package with the same name is created.
You're right, but - That's a tools problem only. The user wont see it, wheras the users sees the project names and structures. - It's the same for Unix filesystems. You also do not know if /foo/bar is a directory or a file. So in this sense it is consistent. The Unix filesystem seperation is widely used, accepted and understood (including it's limitations). I think it's better to use it than redoing it using ":". I also used adapted naming schemes for some of my projects and finally came to conclusion, that Unix file system or URL type addressing would have been better (but it's to late to change). I think for Buildsystem it is still time to change. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thursday 10 May 2007 11:28, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
You're right, but - That's a tools problem only. The user wont see it, wheras the users sees the project names and structures.
If you see it as a tools problem, than it doesn't make much difference, if it's a ':' or a '/' as it's up to the user interface how to present that.
- It's the same for Unix filesystems. You also do not know if /foo/bar is a directory or a file. So in this sense it is consistent.
It might be consistent with filesystems, but it would add complexity to implementations and the API. So I'm not sure that consistency is really beneficial.
The Unix filesystem seperation is widely used, accepted and understood (including it's limitations). I think it's better to use it than redoing it using ":". I also used adapted naming schemes for some of my projects and finally came to conclusion, that Unix file system or URL type addressing would have been better (but it's to late to change). I think for Buildsystem it is still time to change.
As the ':' has some drawbacks it would be nice to have a better solution (and
a change might be a bit painful, but not impossible). But the '/' has
drawbacks as well. So does somebody have an idea which comes with less
drawbacks?
--
Cornelius Schumacher
On Fri, 11 May 2007, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
You're right, but - That's a tools problem only. The user wont see it, wheras the users sees the project names and structures.
If you see it as a tools problem, than it doesn't make much difference, if it's a ':' or a '/' as it's up to the user interface how to present that.
The way the API presents and handles the names is a tool's problem. The naming of the projects not, as this is presented to the user.
- It's the same for Unix filesystems. You also do not know if /foo/bar is a directory or a file. So in this sense it is consistent.
It might be consistent with filesystems, but it would add complexity to implementations and the API. So I'm not sure that consistency is really beneficial.
I don't see that additional complexity really. For the client side sending a request there is no difference and for the other side handling the request its merely xxx/yyy/zzz/... if existsproject(xxx/yyy/zzz) then handle...(project xxx/yyy/zzz) else handle...(package xxx/yyy/zzz) A switch of equal type must already be there for the current implementation. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 11 May 2007 12:25:09 wrote Dirk Stoecker:
On Fri, 11 May 2007, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:
You're right, but - That's a tools problem only. The user wont see it, wheras the users sees the project names and structures.
If you see it as a tools problem, than it doesn't make much difference, if it's a ':' or a '/' as it's up to the user interface how to present that.
The way the API presents and handles the names is a tool's problem. The naming of the projects not, as this is presented to the user.
- It's the same for Unix filesystems. You also do not know if /foo/bar is a directory or a file. So in this sense it is consistent.
It might be consistent with filesystems, but it would add complexity to implementations and the API. So I'm not sure that consistency is really beneficial.
I don't see that additional complexity really. For the client side sending a request there is no difference and for the other side handling the request its merely
As Andreas Bauer explained before, there is a differnce since / is also used for other tasks (seperating project name from package name for example). So when you use also / within project names it is unclear in which context a / is used now. You would loose informations by this change. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG N�rnberg) email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value... Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On 2007-05-10 12:14:08 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value...
or using a sane shell in first place. zsh for the win. darix -- openSUSE - SUSE Linux is my linux openSUSE is good for you www.opensuse.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Marcus Rueckert wrote:
On 2007-05-10 12:14:08 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value...
or using a sane shell in first place. zsh for the win.
a) It should not matter, what shell I use. b) Yast shows the sources with % escaping independently from the shell I use :-) c) The same for any webbrowser. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 02:52:44PM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
a) It should not matter, what shell I use.
bash sucks ;-)
b) Yast shows the sources with % escaping independently from the shell I use :-) c) The same for any webbrowser.
Really? My konqueror doesn't escape ':'. Firefox also doesn't. What browser are you talking about? Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 10 May 2007, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 02:52:44PM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
a) It should not matter, what shell I use.
bash sucks ;-)
b) Yast shows the sources with % escaping independently from the shell I use :-) c) The same for any webbrowser.
Really? My konqueror doesn't escape ':'. Firefox also doesn't. What browser are you talking about?
Hmm. Maybe I mixed something here. But b) remains. I'm sure there. Ciao -- http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
* Marcus Rueckert
On 2007-05-10 12:14:08 +0200, Michael Schroeder wrote:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value...
or using a sane shell in first place. zsh for the win.
There are more problems than just the shell. I also run into the problem when I unpackaged a package (quilt setup ...spec) under the buildservice path that includes a ':' that the build scripts failed. It took me lots of time just to figure out in the end that the colon broke the build. Another problem is that normally paths are separated by ':' in environment variables or configuration files. So if the code that parses the environment variable doesn't use some escape syntax (for example just uses split(/:/, $ENV{FOOBAR})) then it also breaks. Of course, that all can considered as bug in the programs, but we must not make life more complicated that it already is. But I guess that it's too late to change. :-( Thanks, Bernhard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
Michael Schroeder escribió:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value...
COMP_WORDBREAKS=${COMP_WORDBREAKS//:/} works for me ;) /me thinks about switching to zsh though :-D
Hello, on Montag, 11. Juni 2007, Cristian Rodriguez R. wrote:
Michael Schroeder escribió:
On Thu, May 10, 2007 at 08:41:41AM +0200, Dirk Stoecker wrote:
I asked myself, why the buildservice uses the ":" as seperation character? This makes some trouble in commandline, as : must always be escaped and also it looks strange from users side.
Actually not true, ':' doesn't need to be escaped. It's just that the readline completion doesn't work anymore, but you can fix that by setting COMP_WORDBREAKS to some sane value...
COMP_WORDBREAKS=${COMP_WORDBREAKS//:/} works for me ;)
More or less. I see problems because : is also used as "hostname separator". Just tell me what the following command will do ;-) scp -r server:irc/ /tmp with the following preconditions: # ls -l ser* drwxr-xr-x 7 cb users 4096 11. Jun 21:27 server:irc # ping server PING server (10.12.80.1) 56(84) bytes of data. [...] *eg*
/me thinks about switching to zsh though :-D
This won't fix the problem I mentioned... Regards, Christian Boltz, sometimes annoyed by the fact that filenames may contain each and every char... -- xslt, was? Wir kombinieren das Paradigma von awk mit der sprachlichen Eleganz von Cobol und den programmiertechnischen Verrenkungen von funktionalen Sprachen unter sorgfältiger Umgehung aller möglichen Vorteile. [Kristian Köhntopp] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-buildservice+help@opensuse.org
participants (9)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Andreas Bauer -
Bernhard Walle -
Christian Boltz -
Cornelius Schumacher -
Cristian Rodriguez R. -
Dirk Stoecker -
Marcus Rueckert -
Michael Schroeder