http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c1 Egbert Eich changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |msrb@suse.com Flags| |needinfo?(msrb@suse.com) --- Comment #1 from Egbert Eich --- Enabling 'Remote Administration' is only one use patter for Xvnc. Whether it should be installed automatically or if people should do so by hand is not easy to say. For SLE12 SP2 we have greatly enhanced the usage patterns (with YaST support) this has found its way into openSUSE as well. Let's ask Michal Srb who is mostly responsible for VNC. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c3 --- Comment #3 from Dominique Leuenberger --- (In reply to Michal Srb from comment #2)

I don't think removing xorg-x11-Xvnc from the pattern patterns-openSUSE-x11 would cause big trouble to anybody, but I also don't think there is a reason to remove it.

My main motivation is to get rid of icewm on freshly installed system - icewm is currently only pulled in by xorg-x11-Xvnc -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c5 Dominique Leuenberger changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |IN_PROGRESS Assignee|xorg-maintainer-bugs@forge. |dimstar@opensuse.org |provo.novell.com | --- Comment #5 from Dominique Leuenberger --- (In reply to Michal Srb from comment #4)

I see. The dependency on icewm was added as solution for bnc#956537. Ideally xorg-x11-Xvnc would depend on something like "any desktop environment or icewm as fallback". No idea if this can be done with RPM.

In theory, yes - all 'WMs' / 'DEs' could provide one 'generic symbol' (e.g Provides: any-window-manager) and xorg-x11-Xvnc could then Requires: any-window-manager. For as long as the user installs a graphical system, this would be satisfied - otherwise if xorg-x11-Xvnc is benig installed on a system without any DE yet, zypper will 'pick one' (where it tries to minimize the number of packages needed). so, in fact you can't really say : if none is there, pick icewm' - chances are though that zypp will go this route as it is likely the smallest stack to chose.

So I don't object removing xorg-x11-Xvnc from the pattern.

Thanks - I'll submit this in the coming days. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c7 --- Comment #7 from Dominique Leuenberger --- (In reply to Egbert Eich from comment #6)

(In reply to Dominique Leuenberger from comment #5)

...

Thanks - I'll submit this in the coming days.

Domenique, we should also pursue your other suggestion. I bet it is not only Xvnc which would like to have 'any' desktop environment installed. We would do the changes to the pieces on X11:XOrg and help out on others.

No objection at all! I'm open to this - we should 'just' agree on the name and then 'do it'

As desktop environments to add this to the following come to my mind:

KDE Gnome Xfce Lxde Enlightenment I3 icewm twm(?) Did I miss anything?

Looking at 'zypper se -d "window manager"' gives some more hits we might want to consider (not all of it is true of course): * WindowMager (?) * awesome * fvwm2 * openbox * sawfish * xmonad * mate * cinnamon * LXqt -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c10 --- Comment #10 from Dominique Leuenberger --- Egbert, did we agree on the symbol to be used? If so, I will create various bug reports for the different DEs we listed to get this moved forward Finding people to help out can't be that difficult ;) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663#c12 --- Comment #12 from Dominique Leuenberger --- (In reply to Egbert Eich from comment #11)

What would we have to do?

1. Add a 'Suggests: ...' or 'Recommends: ...' to the all packages which need a window manager and add a 'Provides: ...' to all windowmanager packages?

if it 'needs' a window manager, I'd say Requires, if it enhances capability greatly, Recommends. Suggests is imho rather useless, as there is no proper UI ever showing that something is suggested

We can a. fix up twm b. grep thru all packages we maintain to look for a: (Requires|Suggests|Recommends): *wm

That's about the starting point... once we agree which symbol the WMs should provide, so we know what to require

Maybe b. should be done when at least some WMs (icewm ...) have been fixed.

If twm is the only to provide the new symbol by when we replace the explicit twm dependency to the new virtual symbol, we're already in a good place: the same things would be required.. but of course the more WMs we have fixed, the better user experience we can offer

Regarding the name - how about using a general scheme:

Requires: <application-service>-pro in this particular case, Requires: windowmanager-provider

(unless another scheme for this purpose already exists).

There are probably as many schemes as users thinking of some - webservers for example provide 'http_daemon' for similar reasons. a lot of virtual providers lately are used with FOO() syntax (making it easy never to conflict with a real package). So we could do for example: Provides: windowmanager() (the fact that it's a provider is clear by Provides: - adding the () only serves to not ever conflict with a potential package named 'windowmanager' (one never knows) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=981663 Bug 981663 depends on bug 992969, which changed state. Bug 992969 Summary: XFCE: The window manager should provide 'windowmanager' capability http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=992969 What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution|--- |FIXED -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.