https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c1 Stephan Kulow changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #1 from Stephan Kulow 2011-10-22 21:03:53 CEST --- your statement is untrue -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c3 Ludwig Nussel changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |lnussel@suse.com --- Comment #3 from Ludwig Nussel 2011-10-26 14:22:32 CEST --- The split provides is in systemd-sysvinit so replacement of sysvinit by systemd on upgrade is expected behavior. Is it intentional so too? :-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c4 Stephan Kulow changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #4 from Stephan Kulow 2011-10-26 15:20:07 CEST --- if systemd breaks something, file a bug report. But "Systemd should only be enabled with fresh installs" is INVALID. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c6 Stephan Kulow changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |INVALID --- Comment #6 from Stephan Kulow 2011-10-27 07:20:04 CEST --- I don't close valid bug reports, I close INVALID ones. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c8 Stephan Kulow changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|coolo@suse.com |freitag@suse.com Summary|System is switched from |Coolo is ignorant and |sysvinit to systemd while |arrogant |upgrade | --- Comment #8 from Stephan Kulow 2011-10-27 13:44:00 CEST --- Klaas, yours to fix obviously. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c10 Jean-Daniel Dodin changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |jdd@dodin.org --- Comment #10 from Jean-Daniel Dodin 2011-10-28 14:28:20 UTC --- and if people do not understand, this is not a bug but a feature. Like it or not is an other story... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c12 Ruediger Meier changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |sweet_f_a@gmx.de --- Comment #12 from Ruediger Meier 2011-11-10 14:13:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #10)

and if people do not understand, this is not a bug but a feature. Like it or not is an other story...

It is a bug. There are people using sysvinit for good reasons. Having installed many self written init scripts for different kinds of things. With such setup it's very likely that you will run into trubble if you just switch to systemd without testing it. Getting systemd without being noticed about it makes it even worse. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c14 --- Comment #14 from Ruediger Meier 2011-11-11 00:33:04 UTC --- (In reply to comment #13)

I'm sorry, I misunderstood the problem. After reading again carefully, I agree with comment #10.

Reading between your lines I assume you agree with #12 instead of #10 right?

Unfortunately it's probably too late to do accept it even if there were good will (which I doubt).

Coolo's "ignorant and arrogant" behavior (pointed out by himself, see Bug Activity) was not really helpful to speed up things ... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c16 --- Comment #16 from Lars Müller 2011-11-11 18:49:45 CET --- As the development of openSUSE 12.1 finished all we can do is to document this as a known issue. Please check http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Most_annoying_bugs_12.1 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

From recent discussions on the different openSUSE lists about systemd it looks

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c18 Lars Müller changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED --- Comment #18 from Lars Müller 2011-11-12 18:19:05 CET --- I consider blacklisting - zypper lock or from inside the YaST UI - an approach we should not recommend to our users. I expect sysvinit to vanish completely in two or three releases as soon as the systemd stack settles more and more. Guess we suggest to lock systemd-sysvinit. In two years when the users upgrade their systems they no longer have the motivation to lock the package in mind. Then libzypp will run into an unresolvable situation. Therefore I strongly vote against suggesting a lock of the systemd-sysvinit package. Adding some additional magic to libzypp to handle all this causes extra work too and would be yet another level of indirection causing at the end more and more hassle. Over all the decision - as much as I don't like it - is the right approach. We have to focus on one technical solution and make this solution a nicely and smooth working one. That's what Frederic is working hard on. It's nor our obligation to help him as much as possible to make systemd smoothly fly with the next release. like the systemd documentation is one major piece which needs our attention in the recent future. @Ruediger + Klaas: Feel free to close this issue as resolved/worksforme if non of you doesn't have a more elegant solution at hand. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c20 Ruediger Meier changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |CLOSED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #20 from Ruediger Meier 2011-11-12 19:12:44 UTC --- How about making systemd-sysvinit and systemd-sysvinit(In reply to comment #18)

I consider blacklisting - zypper lock or from inside the YaST UI - an approach we should not recommend to our users.

On the other hand installing something just to deinstall it is IMO an absolutely inacceptable workflow which I wouldn't teach anybody. I'd rather rsync the blacklist across my host pool to be safe. Maybe there is another way without blacklisting? What about zypper in systemd-sysvinit before zypper up

I expect sysvinit to vanish completely in two or three releases as soon as the systemd stack settles more and more.

Hope not.

Over all the decision - as much as I don't like it - is the right approach. We have to focus on one technical solution and make this solution a nicely and smooth working one. That's what Frederic is working hard on. It's nor our obligation to help him as much as possible to make systemd smoothly fly with the next release.

Personally I don't have any use case for systemd so I can't really help except supporting bug reports where systemd breaks sysvinit. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c22 Lars Müller changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version|RC 1 |Final Resolution|WONTFIX |WORKSFORME --- Comment #22 from Lars Müller 2011-11-13 14:35:27 CET --- Unfortunately nobody replied on comment#3 Closing this one with resolution wonfix is the wrong resolution. Due to the documented fix in the wiki I set it to worksforme. Nevertheless I appreciate an additional comment from Klaas too. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c24 Bruno Friedmann changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |bruno@ioda-net.ch --- Comment #24 from Bruno Friedmann 2011-11-13 17:44:24 UTC --- I don't understand the hell here. I've upgraded 4 computers from 11.4 to 12.1 and no-one has trouble even with raid + lvm encryption and lot of stuff on them. the question is : @Lars did you get also the sysvinit package installed. if yes (and it should be) then booting with old initv is simple as adding init=/sbin/sysvinit on the boot line. End of trouble, and the easier way I known about having a computer booting with init v if you not get it installed, then I think that Yast2 logs, and zypper dup history file would have help as attachement here. I know that some init script could trouble systemd, but only if they do thing that are not in the normal action list. Then as a temporary fix, some wrapper need to be created. Living with factory daily, I know that things can be fixed, apache2 has not a native systemd service file, and the init.d script works now perfectly with systemd. So bug report, specific to each init script that doesn't work would help to get the best of systemd come in. And yeap worksforme ... with or without systemd-sysinitv installed. Next time, spend a bit more time testing when we hit the M2/3 stage.. Really! ;-) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c26 --- Comment #26 from Lars Müller 2011-11-25 13:59:10 CET --- http://oss.sgi.com/pipermail/pcp/2011-November/002008.html is partial about how non openSUSE Open Source developers see the move to systemd. In this case it was a fresh install and no upgrade. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c28 Christian Boltz changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |suse-beta@cboltz.de --- Comment #28 from Christian Boltz 2011-12-22 14:27:07 CET --- Please open a new bugreport (and add a short note with the bug number here). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c30 Ruediger Meier changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|CLOSED |REOPENED Component|Update Problems |Update Problems Resolution|WORKSFORME | AssignedTo|freitag@suse.com |bnc-team-screening@forge.pr | |ovo.novell.com Product|openSUSE 12.1 |openSUSE 12.2 --- Comment #30 from Ruediger Meier 2012-11-14 09:57:25 UTC --- This bug is still present in 12.2. After zypper dup I've got systemd instead of sysvinit. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c32 Stephan Kulow changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #32 from Stephan Kulow 2012-11-20 10:23:20 CET --- Which is perfectly fine as systemd is the default init of 12.2, so doing a "distribution upgrade" you get the new distribution. If you don't want new defaults for zypper dup, it's your duty to lock the old or new packages - otherwise it's (again) perfectly fine for zypper dup to update to new defaults. *Otherwise* it would be a bug in zypper dup. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c34 Ruediger Meier changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #34 from Ruediger Meier 2012-11-20 09:50:48 UTC --- Changing a default does not mean that you can change user's setup if he explicitly configured it. We are not talking about a fresh install but a system upgrade which should not break the system. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c36 Ruediger Meier changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #36 from Ruediger Meier 2012-11-20 10:47:10 UTC --- Nice attitude. This bug was one of the "most annoying bugs" in 12.1. Still not fixed in 12.2 and WONTFIX ever? Your argumentation why it's ok and wanted to switch to systemd again and again is absolutely non-sense. Would you also say it's fine to switch from exim to postfix again and again just because postfix is the default MTA since 10 years? Regardless the user has a working exim config but not a postfix one? Why providing exim packages at all? You know that's stupid to assign this bug to me ... Jump over your own shadow and reopen it by yourself, assign it to somebody who could know why sysvinit will be removed rather than simply upgrading it to the new package name sysvinit-init. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c38 --- Comment #38 from Michal Kubeček 2012-11-20 20:31:00 UTC --- (In reply to comment #37)

You are comparing apples with bananas ;-) There's a big difference - the exim packages still exist and are maintained. sysvinit is not AFAIK - at least I didn't see anyone stepping up to maintain it in the future.

I was considering it and I still am because for me, systemd is the worst thing I have seen in ten years with SuSE distributions, comparable perhaps only with zmd. But seeing both systemd upstream and its proponents in OpenSuSE openly planning to make such task as difficult as possible e.g. by intentionally modifying nonrelated packages in a way that makes them unusable without systemd, really doesn't help. I understand that it is their intention to avoid fair contest with other alternatives; What I don't understand is why the people in charge favor such hostile project. But this is for a discussion somewhere else - if there actually _was_ a discussion, that is; sadly it seems to have been decided long ago without asking anyone. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c Jiaying ren changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |NEW AssignedTo|bnc-team-screening@forge.pr |fcrozat@suse.com |ovo.novell.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=725917#c40 Frederic Crozat changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #40 from Frederic Crozat 2013-01-07 14:41:35 UTC --- This won't change for 12.2 (and I'm clearly not the one who could do such a change) and 12.3 will not have sysvinit supported anyway. closing as WONTFIX feel free to reassign to libzypp maintainer otherwise. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug.