[Bug 220814] New: GNOME application fonts are not showing up properly.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 Summary: GNOME application fonts are not showing up properly. Product: openSUSE 10.2 Version: Beta 2 Platform: Other OS/Version: Other Status: NEW Severity: Major Priority: P5 - None Component: GNOME AssignedTo: bnc-team-gnome@forge.provo.novell.com ReportedBy: jharmon@novell.com QAContact: qa@suse.de I have a fresh install of openSUSE 10.2 beta 2 using GNOME as the interface. I am comparing this with a SLED 10 installation as far as fonts are concerned. On SLED 10 the fonts are very clear and clean looking. On openSUSE 10.2 beta 2 they look like they have the right fonts installed but the fonts are not as clean and clear looking. I have two workstations with openSUSE 10.2 installed and both are showing the same issue. I thought that it might be a display driver issue as well, so I installed the nvidia driver on the box with the nvidia card and it didn't make a difference. This is easiest to see in application like firefox and evolution, so it might be specific to application fonts. I also looked in the control center, font section to see if there was any difference. The only difference in settings that I did see between openSUSE and SLED was that there appears to be a new setting in openSUSE called Document Font, but it isn't documents that I am opening and all of the other setting are the same. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jpr@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- AssignedTo|bnc-team- |federico@ximian.com |gnome@forge.provo.novell.com| ------- Comment #1 from jpr@novell.com 2006-11-14 12:07 MST ------- This is probably a duplicate of either the kde/gnome fonts conflict or borked fonts in general. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 federico@ximian.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jharmon@novell.com ------- Comment #2 from federico@ximian.com 2006-11-16 10:25 MST ------- Joe, can you please provide screenshots comparing SLED 10 and OpenSuse 10.2? [Do you have a ~/.fonts.conf or ~/.fontconfig or similar in your 10.2 installation?] -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #3 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-16 10:38 MST ------- (In reply to comment #2)
Joe, can you please provide screenshots comparing SLED 10 and OpenSuse 10.2?
Yep. I'll show the same information on both workstations in evolution because that is the easiest place to see the difference.
[Do you have a ~/.fonts.conf or ~/.fontconfig or similar in your 10.2 installation?]
There is a .fonts and a .fontsconfig directory on 10.2 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #4 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-16 10:38 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=105807) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=105807&action=view) sled fonts -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED ------- Comment #5 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-16 10:39 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=105808) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=105808&action=view) opensuse fonts -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 stbinner@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mfabian@novell.com ------- Comment #6 from stbinner@novell.com 2006-11-18 04:31 MST ------- There were changes to default fonts and autohint configuration post Beta 2 (see fontconfig.changes). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #7 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-18 19:25 MST ------- The fonts are *much* sharper (less blurry) on openSUSE 10.2. Compare any of the strings outside of the e-mail body, for example the string "Inbox" or the string "From: bugzilla_noreply@novell.com". Use "xmag" if necessary. The reason for the sharper appearance in openSUSE 10.2 is that the byte code interpreter is used by default now for most TrueType fonts, including "DejaVu Sans" which is the font used here. The byte code interpreter gives much better results for fonts which have good byte code. The developers of the "DejaVu" fonts also told me this. The monospace font in the e-mail body is different for both screen shots. In the SLED10 screen shot, the font is "Nimbus Mono L", in the openSUSE 10.2 screen shot it is "DejaVu Sans Mono". "Nimbus Mono L" is a serif font (Courier style which looks like a typewriter). "DejaVu Sans Mono" is a sans serif font. As current computer screens unfortunately still have rather low resolution, the fine details of serif fonts can not be displayed well. Therefore it is usually better to used sans serif fonts by default. The reason we used "Nimbus Mono L" as the default monospace font until now was only a weird bug in kpdf (see bug #129081). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jharmon@novell.com ------- Comment #8 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 04:08 MST ------- Joe, can you please tell me what exactly you don't like? Is it the sharper rendering of the fonts outside of the e-mail body or is it the changed default font for monospace which is used within the e-mail body? → NEEEDINFO. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|jharmon@novell.com | ------- Comment #9 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-20 07:23 MST ------- To me the font doesn't look as uniform as the fonts in SLED. If you take a close look at the fonts from the openSUSE screen shot you will notice that the transition points on each letter make the font look like it has different thicknesses. BTW, I am not the only one who has seen issues. I brought over someone else just to have them look at it. And they felt that something was wrong as well. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jharmon@novell.com ------- Comment #10 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 08:58 MST ------- Which font? The proportional font outside of the e-mail body or the monospace font inside the e-mail body? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|jharmon@novell.com | ------- Comment #11 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-20 09:29 MST ------- (In reply to comment #10)
Which font? The proportional font outside of the e-mail body or the monospace font inside the e-mail body?
Now that I look at it again, I would have to say inside the email body. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #12 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 09:33 MST ------- OK, thank you. I that case you probably agree that the font outside of the e-mail body is certainly rendered better than before. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #13 from federico@ximian.com 2006-11-20 10:06 MST ------- So what do we do? Joe said:
[Do you have a ~/.fonts.conf or ~/.fontconfig or similar in your 10.2 installation?]
There is a .fonts and a .fontsconfig directory on 10.2
Is .fontsconfig the thing that KDE creates from its font configuration program? If so, then this is related to bug #193095. I fear that we'll get a shouting match - "my fonts look ugly"; "no, they don't!"; "yes, they do!" :) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #14 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 10:22 MST ------- Federico> I fear that we'll get a shouting match - "my fonts look Federico> ugly"; "no, they don't!"; "yes, they do!" :) That's often the case when discussing fonts because many aspects of font rendering are a matter of taste. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #15 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 10:27 MST ------- Federico> Is .fontsconfig the thing that KDE creates from its font Federico> configuration program? No, ~/.fontconfig is just a directory where .cache-2 files are stored. Fontconfig 2.3.94 stored the user specific cache in ~/.fonts.cache-2. This file contained all the caches for all font directories and for all architectures. Now, ~/.fontconfig contains one cache file for each directory and each architecture. This directory has nothing to do with the setup of the rendering, it is only a better organization of the caches. There were many problems with putting all caches in a single file. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #16 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-20 10:31 MST ------- Federico> So what do we do? I admit that the rendering of "DejaVu Sans Mono" (the monospace font in the e-mail body) looks a bit weird in the screen shot. I'll try to find out why this happens. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #17 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-21 14:22 MST ------- Joe, which setting of "hintstyle" are you using? The default is "hintfull" but maybe you have changed that in the Gnome control centre? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #18 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-21 14:48 MST ------- (In reply to comment #17)
Joe, which setting of "hintstyle" are you using?
Where do I find that setting.
The default is "hintfull" but maybe you have changed that in the Gnome control centre?
The font settings are left at their defaults. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #19 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-21 15:18 MST ------- What are the last changelog entries of fontconfig and fonts-config? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #20 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-21 15:19 MST ------- Joe Harmon> The font settings are left at their defaults. OK, then this is hintmedium. I think hintfull is a better default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #21 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-21 16:01 MST ------- (In reply to comment #19)
What are the last changelog entries of fontconfig and fonts-config?
jharmon@linuxjoe:~> rpm -qa --changelog fontconfig | more * Fri Nov 10 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - choose nicer default fonts for sans-serif, serif, and monospace. It is not necessary anymore to choose fonts which are metric compatible to the Adobe fonts as the default, the bug in kpdf is apparently fixed (see Bugzilla #129081). The default fonts for all three styles are now Déjà Vu on openSUSE. * Fri Oct 27 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - make last patch a little bit nicer to get it included upstream. * Tue Oct 24 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - do not delete cache files for different architectures. * Fri Oct 20 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - Bugzilla #213616: make suse-font-dirs.conf work again by symlinking it into /etc/fonts/conf.d. * Wed Oct 18 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - Bugzilla #213190, Fate #300430: "Use CMEXSong font as the default font for zh_TW locale" * Mon Oct 16 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - update to 2.4.1. jharmon@linuxjoe:~> rpm -qa --changelog fonts-config | more * Wed Oct 25 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - Fate #300950: after the regular setup is done, source all scripts in /usr/lib/fonts-config/conf.d which might do additional setup. * Thu Sep 28 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - the OpenOffice font directory on x86_64 is /usr/lib64/ooo-2.0/share/fonts/truetype/. * Wed Sep 13 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - some fonts have more than one space in the family name, replace them all with '_' where necessary in the Java setup. * Tue Sep 12 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - improve Java 1.5 font setup for Chinese and Korean. * Thu Aug 17 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - fix font paths in Java font setup for X11R7. * Wed Aug 16 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - use "Recommends: ft2demos" only for SuSE Linux >= 10.1. * Thu Aug 10 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - Bugzilla #195835: print a warning to stdout when the creation -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #22 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-21 16:30 MST ------- OK, then you don't have this yet mfabian@magellan:~$ rpm -q --changelog fonts-config | head -n 8 * 水 11月 15 2006 - mfabian@suse.de - Bugzilla #215602: don't use the embedded bitmaps in the IPA fonts because they are only available in 12, 14, and 16 pixels. - Bugzilla #215602: Don't use the autohinter for fonts where it it distorts the metrics so badly that even the digits which should be monospaced are not monospaced at all anymore. - Don't use the autohinter for good quality TrueType fonts. mfabian@magellan:~$ "good quality TrueType fonts" includes the Déjà Vu fonts. I.e. after this change, the Déjà Vu fonts are rendered with the byte code interpreter which gives much better quality then in your screen shot even if you continue to use "hintmedium". But "hintfull" is even better! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #23 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-21 16:38 MST ------- Can you please update to the latest fontconfig and fonts-config packages from STABLE and try again? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #24 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-22 17:14 MST ------- http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/noarch/fonts-config-... http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/x86_64/fontconfig-2.... http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/i586/fontconfig-2.4.... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jharmon@novell.com ------- Comment #25 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-24 02:35 MST ------- →NEEDINFO -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|jharmon@novell.com | ------- Comment #26 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-27 09:29 MST ------- (In reply to comment #23)
Can you please update to the latest fontconfig and fonts-config packages from STABLE and try again?
Sorry I was out for the last several days. i just tried the links and I am getting a 404. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #27 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-27 09:34 MST ------- The rpm build numbers have changed in the meantime. Now there are: http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/noarch/fonts-config-... http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/i586/fontconfig-2.4.... http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/x86_64/fontconfig-2.... Just go to the directories http://software.opensuse.org/download/M17N/SUSE_Factory/{noarch,i586,x86_64} and download the newest fonts-config and fontconfig packages from these directories. Or, get the packages from STABLE. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |NEEDINFO Info Provider| |jharmon@novell.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEEDINFO |ASSIGNED Info Provider|jharmon@novell.com | ------- Comment #28 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-27 09:51 MST ------- That does look a little better and at this point I think it will be a matter of preference. The bold font in evolution still looks a little funny to me but it may be that I am just use to another font within evolution. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #29 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-27 14:42 MST ------- FWIW, I went into gnome-control-center, fonts, details, and change the Hinting section to slight and it was much better. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #30 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-28 04:33 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=107172) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=107172&action=view) hintstyle.png xfd -fa "DejaVuSans:pixelsize=16" with different hintstyle values in ~/.fonts.conf. From to left to bottem right: hintfull hintmedium hintslight hintnone -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #31 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-28 04:36 MST ------- I don't think that hintslight is better. Comparing the different hintstyle values in the screen shot attached to comment #30 shows that hintmedium and hintslight (which are the same by the way) give much fuzzier rendering than hintfull. hintnone is of course even worse. I think hintfull should be the default, only that gives really sharp glyphs. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED ------- Comment #32 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-28 04:37 MST ------- Joe Harmon> That does look a little better and at this point I think Joe Harmon> it will be a matter of preference. OK, then I think this bug can be closed as FIXED. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #34 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-28 08:06 MST ------- Joe Harmon> I think that it should at least be set to medium which is the default for SLED. Maybe for Gnome. But for KDE the default is hintfull. Joe Harmon> If it is not set then the spacing for the bold fonts doesn't look correct. Why do you think so? Do you have an example screen shot? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #35 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-28 08:17 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=107221) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=107221&action=view) Hinting Full -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #36 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-28 08:18 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=107223) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=107223&action=view) Hinting Slight We must take into consideration gnome and kde here. Evolution is a heavily used application. Personally I think it should be set to Slight rather than Medium or Full but Medium at least looks better than Full. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #37 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-28 08:23 MST ------- The best way to test how this is affecting evolution is to login to gnome and open evolution and put in your groupwise account information. Then make the changes with evolution open in the background and you will see how dramatic the change is. What worries me is that you have people that have been using gnome and evolution for a long time now and we that look and feel to one that people are not used to and IMO, far less appealing. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 wstephenson@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |cschum@novell.com, wstephenson@novell.com ------- Comment #38 from wstephenson@novell.com 2006-11-29 05:33 MST ------- I just had an interesting discussion with Cornelius about this. In my opinion, the activation of the bytecode interpreter and use of full hinting gives us really crisp, clear, fine default fonts. I see hintslight as giving blurry, chunky text, and plain characters appears demi-bold. On the other hand, Cornelius perceived the antialiased diagonals and curves as more grey than the black of the verticals/horizontals and as a result saw the text as less harmonious than that given by hintslight. So 'good' or 'bad' are subjective terms (as Mike already said), Joe, can you describe how you see the fonts in terms other than good, bad and (in)correct, because your perception isn't communicable with these to someone (Mike, myself) who subjectively perceives hintfull as 'correct'. In Joe's most recent examples I agree that with hintsfull, bold text in the email header pane appears too closely spaced and the same text is more pleasing with hintslight. However the plain script making up the majority of the UI appears blurry and demi-bold to me so I am willing to accept the look of the bold text. Joe: I guess you are using 'Sans Serif' throughout here? Mike: Could it be that the hinting of the font used for 'Sans Serif' is better at plain script than for bold? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #39 from cschum@novell.com 2006-11-29 05:47 MST ------- I see the same problem in Kontact. When I installed RC3 today I first thought the fonts were broken. By changing the hinting back from full to slight it looks ok again. I'm using Arial and with full hinting the fonts look somewhat disturbed as there are dark spots where lines meet and for example in a K the vertical line is black, but the diagonal lines are grey. With slight font hinting all lines have the same color again. This appears more readable to me. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #40 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-29 09:06 MST ------- Joe, can you please check which fonts are used in your evolution screen shots by executing this: mfabian@magellan:~$ lsof -p $(pidof evolution) | grep fonts evolution 13849 mfabian mem REG 3,1 508652 588495 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSans.ttf evolution 13849 mfabian mem REG 3,1 484288 586773 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSans-Bold.ttf mfabian@magellan:~$ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #41 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-29 09:54 MST ------- I am asking because the font in your screen shot from comment #35 *outside* of the e-mail body is apparently *not* "DejaVu Sans". I wonder which font exactly this is. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #42 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-29 10:02 MST ------- If you have selected "Sans" as your standard font, please also give the output of fc-match sans (run in the locale your are usually using, which is probably en_US.UTF-8). -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #43 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-29 10:13 MST ------- I haven't changed any of the default fonts in evolution and the fonts in the control center are set to the defaults as well. jharmon@linuxjoe:~> fc-match sans albw.ttf: "Albany AMT" "Regular" -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 jharmon@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|RESOLVED |REOPENED Resolution|FIXED | ------- Comment #44 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-29 10:24 MST ------- (In reply to comment #38)
I just had an interesting discussion with Cornelius about this. In my opinion, the activation of the bytecode interpreter and use of full hinting gives us really crisp, clear, fine default fonts. I see hintslight as giving blurry, chunky text, and plain characters appears demi-bold.
It is just the opposite for me.
So 'good' or 'bad' are subjective terms (as Mike already said), Joe, can you describe how you see the fonts in terms other than good, bad and (in)correct, because your perception isn't communicable with these to someone (Mike, yself) who subjectively perceives hintfull as 'correct'.
Hmmm, I though that I did explain it but I will try again. I am not arguing about the crispness of the fonts. What I am arguing is that in evolution the bold font does not appear uniform in thickness or in spacing with the default set to hintfull. Changing it to hintslight corrects the spacing and uniform thickness issue. The other issue was the same one that was outlined in comment #39 but was addressed for the non-bold font by the attachments in comment #37. Personally I like the fuzzier fonts like we have in SLED, but it is really not that issue that is being argued. It is the non-uniformness in spacing and thickness with the fonts that is the issue for me.
In Joe's most recent examples I agree that with hintsfull, bold text in the email header pane appears too closely spaced and the same text is more pleasing with hintslight. However the plain script making up the majority of the UI appears blurry and demi-bold to me so I am willing to accept the look of the bold text.
Joe: I guess you are using 'Sans Serif' throughout here? Mike: Could it be that the hinting of the font used for 'Sans Serif' is better at plain script than for bold?
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https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #45 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-11-29 10:38 MST ------- (In reply to comment #40)
Joe, can you please check which fonts are used in your evolution screen shots by executing this:
Sorry I missed this one. jharmon@linuxjoe:~> lsof -p $(pidof evolution) | grep fonts evolution 18227 jharmon mem REG 3,2 237508 1215782 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/DejaVuSansMono.ttf evolution 18227 jharmon mem REG 3,2 171564 1215585 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albwb.ttf evolution 18227 jharmon mem REG 3,2 169056 1215584 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albw.ttf evolution 18227 jharmon mem REG 3,2 180748 1215587 /usr/share/fonts/truetype/albwi.ttf -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #46 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-29 17:11 MST ------- OK, the font is indeed "Albany AMT" at pixelsize=13. I had difficulties to reproduce this on my system because setting size=9 in gnome-font-properties gave me pixelsize=12.25 and size=10 in gnome-font-properties gave me pixelsize=13.61. Apparently the dpi of my screen is different from your screen, therefore I always saw slight differences. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #48 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-30 08:41 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=107653) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=107653&action=view) albany-amt-bold.png -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #49 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-11-30 08:42 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=107655) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=107655&action=view) dejavu-sans-bold.png -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 cduquette@gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |cduquette@gmail.com ------- Comment #51 from cduquette@gmail.com 2006-12-03 09:25 MST ------- I'm having the same issue here. I did a fresh install of openSUSE 10.2 RC1 and then upgraded to the latest factory packages. Prior to the upgrade selecting the font 'Sans' in gnome-font-properties would return DejaVu Sans. After the upgrade 'Sans' used Albany-AMT which I personally find to be an ugly looking font (at all sizes). What's even more interesting is if I put random TTF fonts in ~/.fonts/ 'Sans' will inherit those fonts instead of the Albany font. This is especially annoying since putting all the Microsoft TTF core fonts in that directory the 'Sans' font then becomes Courier Italics. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #52 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 04:10 MST ------- Craig Duquette> I'm having the same issue here. No, what you report here is complete unrelated. Craig Duquette> I did a fresh install of openSUSE 10.2 RC1 and then Craig Duquette> upgraded to the latest factory packages. Prior to the Craig Duquette> upgrade selecting the font 'Sans' in Craig Duquette> gnome-font-properties would return DejaVu Sans. After Craig Duquette> the upgrade 'Sans' used Albany-AMT which I personally Craig Duquette> find to be an ugly looking font (at all sizes). "Albany AMT" was already the default font for Sans for a long time, at least since SLES9, probably even longer. That you didn't get them before the upgrade only means that you didn't have the package "agfa-fonts" installed and got that package when updating. The "agfa-fonts" package contains commercial fonts and is therefore not in the free section of openSUSE but only in the "addon" section. If the "agfa-fonts" are not installed, the DejaVu fonts are the default. Craig Duquette> What's even more interesting is if I put random TTF Craig Duquette> fonts in ~/.fonts/ 'Sans' will inherit those fonts Craig Duquette> instead of the Albany font. This is especially Craig Duquette> annoying since putting all the Microsoft TTF core Craig Duquette> fonts in that directory the 'Sans' font then becomes Craig Duquette> Courier Italics. I've never seen anything like this and it is not at all related to the bug we are discussing here. If you can really reproduce that (I doubt it), please open a new bug report with an exact procedure how to reproduce it. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #53 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 09:23 MST ------- Created an attachment (id=108153) --> (https://bugzilla.novell.com/attachment.cgi?id=108153&action=view) hintstyle-comparison-xmag.png String "Folders" magnified with "xmag" from the screen shots of evolution supplied by Joe Harmon in comments #35 and #36. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #54 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 09:28 MST ------- The screen shot in comment #53 shows that the spacing with hintfull and hintslight is actually the same. The huge amount of gray blur which appears when hintslight is used makes this difficult to see but when having a closer look with xmag one can easily count the pixels and clearly see that the spacing is the same. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #55 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-12-04 09:37 MST ------- In comment #7 you mentioned that the changes were made to fix an issue with kpdf. It seems like there are a lot more issues that we are introducing rather than fixing. I just noticed that running knode in gnome looks really bad with the bold font as well. It might be a separate issue but it really seems like we are running into a lot of font issues for one fix to kpdf. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #56 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 09:57 MST ------- No, the recent changes were not done to fix a bug in kpdf. To the contrary, we can now use the DejaVu fonts as the default fonts for openSUSE (as long as the agfa-fonts are not installed) because the bug in kpdf has been fixed. Previously the default fonts when the agfa-fonts were not installed were the URW fonts (Nimbus Sans L, Nimbus RomanNo9 L, Nimbus Mono L). And we have changed the default font for monospace to "DejaVu Sans Mono" even if the agfa-fonts are installed because the agfa-fonts do not contain a monospaced font without serifs. The changes in rendering *style* have nothing whatsoever to do with kpdf. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #57 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 10:00 MST ------- Even the "problem" with the bold font seems to be a matter of taste. I prefer "hintfull" even for the bold version of "Albany AMT". The spacing is the same but it is sharper. The only minor problem I can see is that the letter 's' renders not so nice in some sizes. But if you go that much into detail, you will always find some problems with some letters no matter what rendering style and what font is used. For example the diagonals of 'k' look to light in "Arial" with hintful. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 mfabian@novell.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|REOPENED |RESOLVED Resolution| |FIXED ------- Comment #58 from mfabian@novell.com 2006-12-04 10:03 MST ------- On top of that, the default hintstyle in the Gnome control centre is hintmedium (which is *exactly* the same as hintslight), i.e. as a Gnome user you even get your preferred hintstyle by default. I will keep hintfull as the default in the fontconfig setup in order to get sharp fonts by default in KDE. And I'll close this bug as FIXED now. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814 ------- Comment #59 from jharmon@novell.com 2006-12-04 10:09 MST ------- (In reply to comment #58)
On top of that, the default hintstyle in the Gnome control centre is hintmedium (which is *exactly* the same as hintslight), i.e. as
On my default install it was hintfull. So to me it doesn't seem to be the default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.novell.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=220814
Joe Harmon
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