Hey, i did participate in the usual meetings including running our standup. I talked together with Roland, Adrian and Klaas to Ralf about the general state of openSUSE. Had my awesome 10 year party including cake and everything! Worked with James on the M3 announcement. Discussed about the new wiki instance on opensuse-wiki. Tried to get rid of some poisonous people on the mailinglists and had one day off. I plan to still meet up with the squad and talk about the Portal:Development content and layout. I'm currently blocked by nothing Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Tried to get rid of some poisonous people on the mailinglists
And most likely failed, like all the previous attempts :(. How are actually currently the mailing lists handled? Is there something more than just the netiquette wiki page and the (lack of, often) goodwill of all participants to follow it? I'm getting tired watching the dump the opensuse@ list is, it's not uncommon for people to call each other names or do other kinds of things that are clearly against the rules and make the lists a pain for people who would actually like to use them for something useful (and I've seen a number of complaints about that). Apparently just reason and goodwill do not work with some people and there I really think some of these should be warned and then kicked out if they are too stupid to act well. I'm not sure how to go exactly about this, but KDE has a community team (or whatever the name is exactly) that tries to keep an eye on issues like this, can be pointed to problems and they first try to solve it and if nothing works they eventually ban the problematic person. Maybe we could try something similar? I don't know who to actually grant the power and responsibility, but maybe we could start by first just announcing a contact where to report problems and I'd hope eventually some people would turn out to be good candidates to do the actual work. IIRC one of the topics we discussed in September was improving the lists and this is different from the others that it is long-term but relatively low-effort. In the end it could be quickly more efficiently spent time than just random unorganized attempts. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
I'm not sure how to go exactly about this, but KDE has a community team (or whatever the name is exactly) that tries to keep an eye on issues like this, can be pointed to problems and they first try to solve it and if nothing works they eventually ban the problematic person. Maybe we could try something similar? I don't know who to actually grant the power and responsibility, but maybe we could start by first just announcing a contact where to report problems and I'd hope eventually some people would turn out to be good candidates to do the actual work. I think for these kind of cases we have the openSUSE board who can act wisely. I think they're empowered by the people who signed the guiding
Am Montag 08 März 2010 15:49:13 schrieb Lubos Lunak: Hi, principles.
IIRC one of the topics we discussed in September was improving the lists and this is different from the others that it is long-term but relatively low-effort. In the end it could be quickly more efficiently spent time than just random unorganized attempts.
Hmm, I am not sure if I understand who you mean here. Can you elaborate? Thanks, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On 03/08/2010 03:49 PM, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Tried to get rid of some poisonous people on the mailinglists
And most likely failed, like all the previous attempts :(
Why do you think so? :) I actually have hope that i at least was able to scare off one.
How are actually currently the mailing lists handled? Is there something more than just the netiquette wiki page and the (lack of, often) goodwill of all participants to follow it?
There is the netiquette and for escalation the owners (which is 99.999999% me).
I'm getting tired watching the dump the opensuse@ list is, it's not uncommon for people to call each other names or do other kinds of things that are clearly against the rules and make the lists a pain for people who would actually like to use them for something useful (and I've seen a number of complaints about that). Apparently just reason and goodwill do not work with some people and there I really think some of these should be warned and then kicked out if they are too stupid to act well.
As soon as i know about name calling i talk to people. If they still can't behave i moderate them and if that fails too i kick them. The later steps happen not so often and the initial step (people telling the owner) not often enough.
I'm not sure how to go exactly about this
I'm petty sure. opensuse@ is fubar'ed because there are not enough friendly people that lead by example. The assholes have free reign there, so everybody follows their lead. What it would need would be around 10-15 more friendly people to turn this around. You know it's like a bash or a club, if there are enough people partying then everybody is. If there are enough people in a bad mood, everybody will be. An escalation path like you describe is not helping this i fear, we already have one. Maybe it needs better presentation, i don't know. Oh and BTW we once had an intern analyzing this across the major distro lists and it was always a core group of people who set the tone. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 03/08/2010 03:49 PM, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Tried to get rid of some poisonous people on the mailinglists
And most likely failed, like all the previous attempts :(
Why do you think so? :) I actually have hope that i at least was able to scare off one.
We are not talking about Basil, are we?
How are actually currently the mailing lists handled? Is there something more than just the netiquette wiki page and the (lack of, often) goodwill of all participants to follow it?
There is the netiquette and for escalation the owners (which is 99.999999% me).
I'm getting tired watching the dump the opensuse@ list is, it's not uncommon for people to call each other names or do other kinds of things that are clearly against the rules and make the lists a pain for people who would actually like to use them for something useful (and I've seen a number of complaints about that). Apparently just reason and goodwill do not work with some people and there I really think some of these should be warned and then kicked out if they are too stupid to act well.
As soon as i know about name calling i talk to people. If they still can't behave i moderate them and if that fails too i kick them. The later steps happen not so often and the initial step (people telling the owner) not often enough.
Fair enough. I'll point you to such cases next time.
I'm not sure how to go exactly about this
I'm petty sure. opensuse@ is fubar'ed because there are not enough friendly people that lead by example. The assholes have free reign there, so everybody follows their lead. What it would need would be around 10-15 more friendly people to turn this around. You know it's like a bash or a club, if there are enough people partying then everybody is. If there are enough people in a bad mood, everybody will be.
I'm afraid there's no helping with some people other than kicking them hard, but I can see how your plan turns out. -- Lubos Lunak openSUSE Boosters team, KDE developer l.lunak@suse.cz , l.lunak@kde.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
Hey, On 03/09/2010 04:23 PM, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
On 03/08/2010 03:49 PM, Lubos Lunak wrote:
On Monday 08 of March 2010, Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Tried to get rid of some poisonous people on the mailinglists
And most likely failed, like all the previous attempts :(
Why do you think so? :) I actually have hope that i at least was able to scare off one.
We are not talking about Basil, are we?
We are.
How are actually currently the mailing lists handled? Is there something more than just the netiquette wiki page and the (lack of, often) goodwill of all participants to follow it?
There is the netiquette and for escalation the owners (which is 99.999999% me).
I'm getting tired watching the dump the opensuse@ list is, it's not uncommon for people to call each other names or do other kinds of things that are clearly against the rules and make the lists a pain for people who would actually like to use them for something useful (and I've seen a number of complaints about that). Apparently just reason and goodwill do not work with some people and there I really think some of these should be warned and then kicked out if they are too stupid to act well.
As soon as i know about name calling i talk to people. If they still can't behave i moderate them and if that fails too i kick them. The later steps happen not so often and the initial step (people telling the owner) not often enough.
Fair enough. I'll point you to such cases next time.
If you want to you are welcome to help me with this! Please *puppyeyes*
I'm not sure how to go exactly about this
I'm petty sure. opensuse@ is fubar'ed because there are not enough friendly people that lead by example. The assholes have free reign there, so everybody follows their lead. What it would need would be around 10-15 more friendly people to turn this around. You know it's like a bash or a club, if there are enough people partying then everybody is. If there are enough people in a bad mood, everybody will be.
I'm afraid there's no helping with some people other than kicking them hard, but I can see how your plan turns out.
Sure, i agree with that and I'm the first to put on the boots if i know about something. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-boosters+help@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Henne Vogelsang -
Klaas Freitag -
Lubos Lunak