My thoughts exactly Marcus. So I'm not the only one who got such an impression. Are there any SUSE people on the mailing lists? Quoting Marcus Moeller :

Hi Nenad.

...

Hi. So today i stumbled on an interesting topic on the opensuse forums, and there was a link to ms Zvezdana's and mr Ken's lecture in Dubrovnik. I took the time to watch it and i have a couple of concerns i would like to raise here. If anyone can respond, i'd be more than grateful. Here's the copy of the post:

Not speaking from the designer's point of view, as i am not one. But from what i see, and i hope i'm wrong, as i don't want to spread fud. But suggesting the guidelines is one thing (i was pretty excited there as i'm looking for opensuse to have a more uniformed look and feel) and the other when he was talking about rebranding and brand diluting (or however it's spelled). What I see there is a SUSE employee (and a former Canonical employee) talking about how the similar brands aren't a good thing, and he mentions it would be better even if opensuse was called geeko linux, f.ex. I don't know if anyone from suse is with us here on the boards, but i felt some sort of a negative attitude towards the brand similarities. To cut things short, I got the feeling (which may be incorrect) that suse is feeling that opensuse with it's brand is having a negative impact on suse's corporate brand, and it would like it changed, but that they're taking a really small step by step to ensure they don't **** off the community, like Canonical does all the time, because they don't soften it up first. Now he says something, beating around the bush, that he would like to rebrand the whole community project, but he never specifically states why (only the diluting aspect, which i don't know what it is and why it damages any of the projects). Now, it all sounds to me like he thinks it should be done the way RH did it - Red Hat vs Fedora. Distinctly different branding. But then the problem occurs because that should have been done way back on day one. Now to make my personal point. I'm not stating anything, just expressing my interpretation and concern. 1) I wouldn't like opensuse to be rebranded because i'm emotionally attached to the brand and the geeko, so instead of the whole project rebranding, i'd like some kickass graphics in the guidelines provided. But that's just me. 2) If i'm correct about my intuition, I'd like someone from suse to step out, and say exactly why should the brand be changed. I think that if the reasons are valid, the community wouldn't object much, and it couldn't be perceived as suse meddling with the community. It's in all of our best interest to suse to expand and be successful.

If it's just my imagination working here, then I'd be more than happy for someone to say it's a non issue, because the thing i fear the most is the slow manipulation of the community. If the terms are clear, there can't be objections, but slowly trying to steer the vessel somewhere you wan't it by slow manipulation is really not good nor clever, and we'll have a Canonical/Ubuntu scenario in our camp.

Anyway, not trying to spread fud or ignite a flamewar, so if it's a non issue, feel free to ignore it.

I'll be posting this to the mailing list also, as i'm interested in a response from someone.

Relabeling a project in such an advanced stage isn't a good idea imho. We could of course talk about which branding elements to use, though I wouldn't stick with the childish Geeko that has been presented at oSC.

The intend behind this might be to declare oS as a hacking/hobby/unprofessional project which it is not.

Greets Marcus

-- Nenad Latinović nenad@latinovic.info -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 08:32:19 PM jdd wrote:

Le 22/06/2014 20:18, Marcus Moeller a écrit :

...

Relabeling a project in such an advanced stage isn't a good idea imho. We could of course talk about which branding elements to use, though I wouldn't stick with the childish Geeko that has been presented at oSC.

not seen this particular geeko :-)

Here ya go :) https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/498990-openSUSE-The-Way-Forward -- Regards, Uzair Shamim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

I'd like to thank you for your response and reassurance, and also point out something. I, of course, am not thinking you who are employed at SUSE are bad. And I think SUSE doing good is essential to the company, to openSUSE, and to Linux and foss itself, so i'd love to see it do good. When i compared RH and Fedora, I meant only the brands, nothing else from the governing perspective. I thought only that there was a subtle tone to it. I'm glad it's not that way and that I was only being paranoid. And finally, my apologies to you if I offended you in any way. It was most definitely not my intention to stir trouble. Thank you. As far as i'm concerned, this thread can be closed. Quoting Richard Brown :

Okay, so this is a fun thread for me to reply to.. I guess I'm coming here with all 3 of my hats on

In chronological order, for those who don't already know me, my various 'hats' I wear that are relevant to this discussion:

Hat one - I've been a community user and contributor to openSUSE since it's inception in 2005. I am currently part of the teams that currently maintain both GNOME and the 'branding' packages in openSUSE Hat two - I'm a member of the openSUSE Board for the last 2 years Hat three - I'm an employee of SUSE for the last 8 months

So, I think I can speak authoritatively from a historical perspective, and accurately about the current status quo

What you see in the video, is Kenneth and Zvezdana sharing the work they've done, predominantly in the 'print design' space, making lots of nice new materials which form the goodies we now have in booth boxes for distribution at events around the world. As part of that work, they've put together a bunch of Guidelines which I know they hope to have online soon which explain and help people use those materials properly, and to alter/generate their own in a way that's 'compatible' from a professional design perspective.

At around about the 18:30 mark, Kenneth makes it very clear this isn't an enforced change. "The first step in the direction that we maybe want to go". SUSE don't work as part of openSUSE by forcing changes on the community. SUSE isn't a Canonical or even RH-like company that has tight controls over their community distributions. SUSE very much believes that the best way for open source communities to work is by being part of that community and influencing it as peers, not as controllers/managers. When Kenneth says "that we maybe want to go", that's an open invitation for us (the rest of the community, ie. everyone who isn't Kenneth) to share our opinions on where we think it ought to go. From there, I'd expect some discussion and debate would then result in a satisfactory way forward for everyone.

So, with that in mind, the specific topic of 'the openSUSE brand' and how it relates to the 'SUSE' brand, Kenneth makes it quite clear he's not a/the person at SUSE who would make any decision about changing the brand. In fact, as the current openSUSE logo/trademark is jointly administered between SUSE and the openSUSE Board, I would expect that any such changes wouldn't be decided by SUSE alone, but in conjunction/agreement with the openSUSE Board (who do their best job to represent the interests of all of us that contribute to openSUSE)

The opinion Kenneth then shares about what "he" would do, is just that, his opinion. You may think it's a valid one, you may not, but he's entitled to his opinion as a member of this community just as any of us are. I do not think your worry is justified just because he's a SUSE employee, we're all humans too ;-)

My personal opinion (and as we've established, I'm also SUSE employee) is that I disagree with the idea that openSUSE should be totally rebranded (ie. Changing the name of the project, the logo, etc)

I can't help but feel that openSUSE 'deserves' the use of the Geeko as much as SUSE does. It's a big part of the openSUSE projects identity, and we'd be risking a lot if we abandoned it. But if we both want to use it (and I think it's obvious that we do) it's probably best to ensure we're both using it in a way that keeps both brands looking happy & strong, for the benefit of both SUSE and openSUSE

So, in part, I do agree with Kenneth's opinion that the current situation (the openSUSE logo using the old 'Fifthleg' typeface and SUSE using it's new logo) is not ideal - from a design and marketing perspective, it is 'weird' to have these 2 very similar 'brands' (SUSE and openSUSE), who are clearly related (their names after all are SUSE and openSUSE) having a logo which is so similar, yet different. I do agree with the argument that the 'old' style of the current openSUSE logo detracts from the 'new hotness' SUSE are trying to convey with their new logo, and I do think it's an excuse for openSUSE to refresh it's logo and image a little bit.

*Personally* (asteriks for emphasis), I'd like to remove the text from the openSUSE logo and just stick to using the geeko (maybe the new SUSE style with flat feet, maybe not). I have come to hate the old openSUSE fithleg font with a passion, and would be quite happy to throw it in the dustbin, which makes it easier to use fonts like those recommended by Kenneth and Zvezdana in conjunction with a text-free logo. I don't think we need to have text in our logo.

Or, alternatively, I also quite like the idea of refreshing the openSUSE test to look more similar/compatible with the current SUSE logo, which I also think might be a solution to the concerns Kenneth raises

But like I said, these are my personal opinions, there's no overarching 'SUSE policy' on this matter, Kenneth wasn't trying to convey one, we're all just fellow community members sharing our opinions on how to move things forward in the best way

Hope this helps

- Richard

On 22 June 2014 20:45, Uzair Shamim wrote:

...

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 08:32:19 PM jdd wrote:

...

Le 22/06/2014 20:18, Marcus Moeller a écrit :

...

Relabeling a project in such an advanced stage isn't a good idea imho. We could of course talk about which branding elements to use, though I wouldn't stick with the childish Geeko that has been presented at oSC.

not seen this particular geeko :-)

Here ya go :) https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/498990-openSUSE-The-Way-Forward

-- Regards,

Uzair Shamim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

-- Nenad Latinović nenad@latinovic.info -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:22:19 PM jdd wrote:

Le 22/06/2014 20:45, Uzair Shamim a écrit :

...

Here ya go :) https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/498990-openSUSE-The-Way-Forward

a bit too long (41 mn) I guess it's this one:

http://dodin.org/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=2753601a8670f711d0bc762 2e9f7359b

I prefere the usual one :-)

jdd

I like the body of the "new" one but the eyes and the mouth/teeth just look silly to me. I think it should be less cartoony and a bit more serious. -- Regards, Uzair Shamim

Hi all, On 23/06/14 06:50, Marguerite Su wrote:

Hi, guys,

I think you worried too much...Zvezdana and Ken used that chameleon to express the color idea instead of the logo.

This is correct. This chameleon was never meant to be a logo. There were questions during the conference in Dubrovnik to create logo from it, which we refused from the very start. This chameleon is one out of four posters we created and it is the only one that has that "funny" side. That chameleon is just a fragment of the whole concept that we made. If you search on Google

Image, you will know that chameleon exists long before we use it. It's not just "funny" that we can't use it as a logo, but not "legally" possible maybe.

Not really sure where such illustration of chameleon exist, but I can confirm that it is not copied from anywhere. And I am sure hundreds of interpretations of chameleon exist on internet which can be similar in form.

So I think it might be cultural difference hereby that drives this thread. They used a second language to express their ideas while we watched in a second language too. It might be helpful if they release their slideshow. That's exactly why GNOME Asia always release their slides...

And to Raymond: personally I agree to remove the text, because it's useless...

1. most newbies just don't know how to pronounce it and how to correctly write it.

eg: In my area, no one knows "SUSE" actually pronounces like "SUZA" in the first place. and they always write "OpenSUSE" or "Open SUSE" just because wikipedia can't make the first letter uppercase and the SUSE company.

2. due to 1, most newbies in my area just call openSUSE in a different way, based on the image they get from our logo.

eg: "Big Chameleon", "Green Chameleon" are the most common cases.

3. Who really care "Fifthleg" or "OpenSans"? they just read...so I think it has very little influence unless you changed it into emoji :-)

Marguerite

When it comes to rest of discussion I would just repeat what Ken already wrote before. Best regards, Zvezdana -- http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org

Le 23/06/2014 10:02, Kenneth Wimer a écrit :

Whether at some time in the future openSUSE decides to rebrand itself is a question that I cannot answer. I can give you my opinion that the brand needs to be strengthened and I can give you my opinion on how that should happen but in the end it is only my opinion.

thanks do you mean it legally or graphically? jdd -- http://www.dodin.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-artwork+owner@opensuse.org