[opensuse-arm] Leap for armv7l

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Michal Hrusecky

5 Jan 2016 5 Jan '16

07:52

Hi, I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet? If so, where lives wip so I can help? Regards, Michal Hrusecky -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

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Andreas Färber

5 Jan 5 Jan

08:50

Hi Michal, Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky:

...

I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

...

If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Andreas Färber

08:52

Am 05.01.2016 um 09:50 schrieb Andreas Färber:

...

Hi Michal,

Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky:

...
I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

On second thoughts, that applies to KVM builds only, chroot builds should work.

...

Regards, Andreas

-- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Michal Hrusecky

11:07

Andreas Färber - 9:50 5.01.16 wrote:

...

Hi Michal,

Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky:

...
I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

...

A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

...

...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time. So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory. And if I will try to do it in main OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct? Did somebody already talked to Andrew about our lack of resources? I have a computer that I can abuse for a short time, so I'll try to build something. PS: Frankly, I don't care much about images, that's mostly quite easy to do manually, I'm mostly interested in system, so rootfs only is fine for me ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Alexander Graf

11:53

...

Am 05.01.2016 um 12:07 schrieb Michal Hrusecky :

Andreas Färber - 9:50 5.01.16 wrote:

...
Hi Michal,

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky: I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

FWIW there is no 32bit Leap anywhere - not on x86, not on ppc and not on ARM.

...

...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory. And if I will try to do it in main OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

I'm fairly sure if someone else takes care of the "keeping Leap working" bits, we can solve the build power issues. Would you commit to be the contact point for it? Alex

...

Did somebody already talked to Andrew about our lack of resources?

I have a computer that I can abuse for a short time, so I'll try to build something.

PS: Frankly, I don't care much about images, that's mostly quite easy to do manually, I'm mostly interested in system, so rootfs only is fine for me ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Matwey V. Kornilov

14:28

New subject: [opensuse-arm] Re: Leap for armv7l

05.01.2016 14:53, Alexander Graf пишет:

...

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 12:07 schrieb Michal Hrusecky :

Andreas Färber - 9:50 5.01.16 wrote:

...
Hi Michal,

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky: I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

FWIW there is no 32bit Leap anywhere - not on x86, not on ppc and not on ARM.

...
...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory. And if I will try to do it in main OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

I'm fairly sure if someone else takes care of the "keeping Leap working" bits, we can solve the build power issues. Would you commit to be the contact point for it?

Just my 2c. For some reason Leap 42.1 kernel has armv7hl config. I suppose we need to start from checking if it still builds and boots using Tumbleweed packages. Second issue is bootloader which still doesn't support multiple kernel. So, I think maybe better to focus on having armv7hl for Leap 42.2. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Michal Hrusecky

6 Jan 6 Jan

19:38

Alexander Graf - 12:53 5.01.16 wrote:

...

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 12:07 schrieb Michal Hrusecky :

Andreas Färber - 9:50 5.01.16 wrote:

...
Hi Michal,

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky: I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

FWIW there is no 32bit Leap anywhere - not on x86, not on ppc and not on ARM.

Yep, I know and on x86 it kinda makes sense, on ARM, most of the boards out there are still 32bit, so it makes sense not to drop 32bit ARM for openSUSE (I understand reasoning for SLE though).

...

...
...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory. And if I will try to do it in main OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

I'm fairly sure if someone else takes care of the "keeping Leap working" bits, we can solve the build power issues. Would you commit to be the contact point for it?

Next month I'm joining new company at new position, so I'm not sure how hard can I commit to anything. But yes, I can volunteer to receive the mails, not sure about fixing stuff, can do some fixing, but no idea how much time I can dedicate and how much stuff will be broken. It can be probably marketed as experimental best effort to lower the expectations. If there would be 32bit ARM fixes, I guess there is no way to get it in Leap now, but probably it could be possible to get it in next one. So for this release I guess the solution would be forking few packages that does not build, but hopefully not many as SLE is still based on Factory which should work. And even if it is old codebase, it should be something like openSUSE 13.1 and that one had armv7 port... I believe that once started, there will be plenty people helping (I believe I'm not the only one that wants to use Leap on armv7l). So if somebody who will start with it is needed and some point of contact to connect volunteers and respond to requests, I can volunteer to be that person. As mentioned, not sure how much time I can dedicate it in near future, but we'll see how far it will get ;-) I think getting even part of the distro is better than nothing. I tried on private OBS (that I can abuse temporally) to build Ring 0 of Leap using 13.2 and almost everything builds out of the box except Perl (and gcc5 is still building right now, but pretty far already so I have my hopes up). As we have Rings now, I think we can go ring by ring. Having Ring1 might be actually enough for some use-cases - if you add few packages you need... What do you think? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Alexander Graf

7 Jan 7 Jan

00:07

On 06.01.16 20:38, Michal Hrusecky wrote:

...

Alexander Graf - 12:53 5.01.16 wrote:

...
...
Am 05.01.2016 um 12:07 schrieb Michal Hrusecky :

Andreas Färber - 9:50 5.01.16 wrote:

...
Hi Michal,

...
Am 05.01.2016 um 08:52 schrieb Michal Hrusecky: I was searching but wasn't able to find where lives Leap for armv7l. Or is it not ready yet?

Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html

Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

FWIW there is no 32bit Leap anywhere - not on x86, not on ppc and not on ARM.

Yep, I know and on x86 it kinda makes sense, on ARM, most of the boards out there are still 32bit, so it makes sense not to drop 32bit ARM for openSUSE (I understand reasoning for SLE though).

...
...
...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet.

Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help?

If you want to help, set up a private OBS instance somewhere and start building Leap and fixing any failures. Chances are that if you use qemu-linux-user on x86, like Factory's armv6hl, you'll be able to build packages but won't be able to build any images beyond the rootfs.

Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory. And if I will try to do it in main OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

I'm fairly sure if someone else takes care of the "keeping Leap working" bits, we can solve the build power issues. Would you commit to be the contact point for it?

Next month I'm joining new company at new position, so I'm not sure how hard can I commit to anything. But yes, I can volunteer to receive the mails, not sure about fixing stuff, can do some fixing, but no idea how much time I can dedicate and how much stuff will be broken.

It can be probably marketed as experimental best effort to lower the expectations. If there would be 32bit ARM fixes, I guess there is no way to get it in Leap now, but probably it could be possible to get it in next one. So for this release I guess the solution would be forking few packages that does not build, but hopefully not many as SLE is still based on Factory which should work. And even if it is old codebase, it should be something like openSUSE 13.1 and that one had armv7 port...

I believe that once started, there will be plenty people helping (I believe I'm not the only one that wants to use Leap on armv7l). So if somebody who will start with it is needed and some point of contact to connect volunteers and respond to requests, I can volunteer to be that person. As mentioned, not sure how much time I can dedicate it in near future, but we'll see how far it will get ;-) I think getting even part of the distro is better than nothing. I tried on private OBS (that I can abuse temporally) to build Ring 0 of Leap using 13.2 and almost everything builds out of the box except Perl (and gcc5 is still building right now, but pretty far already so I have my hopes up). As we have Rings now, I think we can go ring by ring. Having Ring1 might be actually enough for some use-cases - if you add few packages you need...

What do you think?

I think it's great if someone (not me) works on it :). Try to push it as far as you can and then let's talk to the Leap maintainers and see what they think. Is there anything in particular keeping you from doing this in your home repo on OBS Apart from build power of course - that shouldn't be a big issue for too much longer. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Dirk Müller

10:37

Hi Michal,

...

based on Factory which should work. And even if it is old codebase, it should be something like openSUSE 13.1 and that one had armv7 port...

Yeah, with drawbacks, as we never integrated all of the necessary build fixes into the 13.1 tree (for most it didn't matter). The main obstacle I have for doing leap on ARMv7 is that I can not get those fixes back into the SLE tree, from which Leap 42.2 is pulling. if that one is solved then we can move forward with it (and I'm happy to help on it). Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Dirk Müller

5 Jan 5 Jan

20:48

Hi Michal,

...

...
Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

Not sure how that answer is related to the question anyway.. So to summarize: Leap 42.1 is in sync with SLE12. Both dropped 32bit support already, and we just didn't bother fixing packages for Leap on armv7 (remember, its a very old toolchain and a very old base system). Since packages are in sync with SLE, it would be difficult if not impossible to get 32bit fixes into the tree. I've had my share of experience with getting the aarch64 fixes in that I needed in order to bootstrap Leap for aarch64 and I had more than enough to do with that, didn't have time to do any other architecture anymore.

...

...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet. Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

Nevermind, it is solved.

...

...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help? Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

Yeah, I don't think thats a good idea.

...

So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory.

You make that sound like a negative thing. We're supporting Tumbleweed, and it is a automatically tested supported distribution, building for 3 ARM architectures. I think thats a good situation to be in, since I think there is a overlap between those people who play with openSUSE on their ARM hardware and those who want the latest, coolest stuff. It certainly would be difficult to get ARM related fixes into the distribution for Leap.

...

OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

Correct, workers for OBS instance build.opensuse.org need to be in the isolated network in the NUE datacenter. But thats not an issue since build power is not the primary issue, the primary issue is that Leap dropped 32bit support.

...

Did somebody already talked to Andrew about our lack of resources?

Yes and we just got 4 additional servers (today).

...

PS: Frankly, I don't care much about images, that's mostly quite easy to do manually, I'm mostly interested in system, so rootfs only is fine for me ;-)

But why is Tumbleweed not fine for you? there is rootfs there.. Greetings, Dirk -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Andreas Färber

6 Jan 6 Jan

09:31

Am 05.01.2016 um 21:48 schrieb Dirk Müller:

...

...
...
Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

Not sure how that answer is related to the question anyway..

It showed that the question has come up on this list at least three times already. Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Andreas Färber

09:35

Am 05.01.2016 um 21:48 schrieb Dirk Müller:

...

...
Did somebody already talked to Andrew about our lack of resources?

Yes and we just got 4 additional servers (today).

But that hardware is aarch64, right? How does that help us with armv7l? I thought we still can't build armv7hl on armv8l. We'll at least need to teach the rpm package about that, somehow. Regards, Andreas -- SUSE Linux GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton; HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

Michal Hrusecky

19:04

Dirk Müller - 21:48 5.01.16 wrote:

...

Hi Michal,

...
...
Apparently you didn't search the list archives: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-arm/2015-11/msg00011.html Yep, I was searching in OBS, didn't expected answer this bad.

Not sure how that answer is related to the question anyway.. So to summarize:

Leap 42.1 is in sync with SLE12. Both dropped 32bit support already, and we just didn't bother fixing packages for Leap on armv7 (remember, its a very old toolchain and a very old base system). Since packages are in sync with SLE, it would be difficult if not impossible to get 32bit fixes into the tree. I've had my share of experience with getting the aarch64 fixes in that I needed in order to bootstrap Leap for aarch64 and I had more than enough to do with that, didn't have time to do any other architecture anymore.

...
...
A workaround for the Arndale boards has been identified by Bernhard and Dirk during Hackweek, but I'm not sure whether it's deployed yet. Ok, will try to read up what was the issue.

Nevermind, it is solved.

Great!

...

...
...
...
If so, where lives wip so I can help? Hmmm, in general not enough resources to effectively fork whole OBS in long term, don't have powerful enough computer that I can spare for a long time.

Yeah, I don't think thats a good idea.

Yeah, me neither :-)

...

...
So you are saying that currently there is no effort to support armv7l on Leap, just somehow building Factory.

You make that sound like a negative thing. We're supporting Tumbleweed, and it is a automatically tested supported distribution, building for 3 ARM architectures. I think thats a good situation to be in, since I think there is a overlap between those people who play with openSUSE on their ARM hardware and those who want the latest, coolest stuff. It certainly would be difficult to get ARM related fixes into the distribution for Leap.

Having Tumbleweed for ARM is great! No question about that! But having Leap as well would be even better :-)

...

...
OBS, it will just cog up and there will be neither Leap nor Tumbleweed as we lack build power. And the workers cannot be distributed outside of NUE datacenter, so I can't contribute my spare CPU cycles. Am I correct?

Correct, workers for OBS instance build.opensuse.org need to be in the isolated network in the NUE datacenter. But thats not an issue since build power is not the primary issue, the primary issue is that Leap dropped 32bit support.

Well, first answer I got pointed at lack of build power :-) I know Leap has no official 32bit support but there were times when openSUSE didn't have arm support.

...

...
Did somebody already talked to Andrew about our lack of resources?

Yes and we just got 4 additional servers (today).

Cool!

...

...
PS: Frankly, I don't care much about images, that's mostly quite easy to do manually, I'm mostly interested in system, so rootfs only is fine for me ;-)

But why is Tumbleweed not fine for you? there is rootfs there..

For me and for one or two boards it's fine as I'm playing with it. But I have some boards that are "in production". Both at home and at my parents. For those I need something that moves slower, doesn't change that much and can be running there for a year or two, receive just some conservative bugfixes/security fixes in that period of time and than be migrated to newer version. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-arm+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-arm+owner@opensuse.org

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participants (5)

Alexander Graf
Andreas Färber
Dirk Müller
Matwey V. Kornilov
Michal Hrusecky