Ken Siersma wrote:

...

What is the chipset of your motherboard? I have a Asus A8V with a Via chipset that states that "with 4 GB of RAM the memory available will be a little less than 4GB due to the Southbridge resource allocation".

Alex

It is a Tyan S2885 Thunder K8W board - chipset AMD-8151.

If you don't have it already, get V2.02 of the tyan bios. There's an option in there that helps quite a bit. I have 8GB of ram and Suse sees virtually all of it. If I don't enable this option then it only sees about 7GB, so it makes a huge difference. I can't remember the name of the option. But I think it should be set to 'discreet' if I remember correctly. I think its under the memory configuration section. Mark

Under the Memory section, there is an option called "Adjust Memory" that is disabled by default ( I think :). Setting it to "Auto" makes the BIOS adjust the memory so that the drivers will be loaded above the 4GB boundary, and the system will see all of the memory (I went from 15.5 GB to 16 GB after setting this option ). I haven't run with this long enough to know if any of the problems that Mark alluded to will show up or not though... On the Tyan S2885 with the v2.02 BIOS, the discrete vs. continuous options for MTRR apply to the way that the BIOS maps the memory values, and will have an effect on whether the Nvidia driver will work with the card - AGP (discrete mapping) or just PCI (continuous mapping - with bandwidth limiting the OpenGL performance to about 10 to 15 percent of what it should be ). If you have it set to continuous (the default - I didn't know it had been added for a while, until Mark called it to my attention :) you will see messages in /var/log/messages when the Nvidia driver is loaded about the mtrr values being the wrong type (write-back vs. combining, or something like that - I am not at work now, so can't give the exact message :), and the card will be driven using just PCI. Changing the value to discrete clears this up, and the card will work with AGP. Kevin Gassiot Advanced Systems Group Visualization Systems Support Veritas DGC 10300 Town Park Dr. Houston, Texas 77072 832-351-8978 kevin_gassiot@veritasdgc.com Ken Siersma To 01/10/2005 12:23 cc PM suse-amd64@suse.com Subject Re: [suse-amd64] System memory missing - AGP card taking it? Mark Horton wrote:

Ken Siersma wrote:

...

...

What is the chipset of your motherboard? I have a Asus A8V with a Via chipset that states that "with 4 GB of RAM the memory available will be a little less than 4GB due to the Southbridge resource allocation".

Alex

It is a Tyan S2885 Thunder K8W board - chipset AMD-8151.

If you don't have it already, get V2.02 of the tyan bios. There's an option in there that helps quite a bit. I have 8GB of ram and Suse sees virtually all of it. If I don't enable this option then it only sees about 7GB, so it makes a huge difference.

I can't remember the name of the option. But I think it should be set to 'discreet' if I remember correctly. I think its under the memory configuration section.

Mark

Mark, Thanks. Changing the option that I think you are referring to (CPU Configuration: MTRR Mapping: Discrete) did not work for me. I still only see 3.26 GB. -- Check the List-Unsubscribe header to unsubscribe For additional commands, email: suse-amd64-help@suse.com

I am still running 9.0, and this works on that version of the kernel. I tried Suse 9.1 and 9.2, and you are right, I can't boot with the v2.02 BIOS under these kernels, I had to go back to the v1.02 BIOS to get 9.1 and 9.2 to boot. Haven't had time to sort through these yet.... Kevin Gassiot Advanced Systems Group Visualization Systems Support Veritas DGC 10300 Town Park Dr. Houston, Texas 77072 832-351-8978 kevin_gassiot@veritasdgc.com Ken Siersma To suse-amd64@suse.com 01/11/2005 08:50 cc AM Subject Re: [suse-amd64] System memory missing - AGP card taking it? Kevin_Gassiot@veritasdgc.com wrote:

Under the Memory section, there is an option called "Adjust Memory" that is disabled by default ( I think :). Setting it to "Auto" makes the BIOS adjust the memory so that the drivers will be loaded above the 4GB boundary, and the system will see all of the memory (I went from 15.5 GB to 16 GB after setting this option ). I haven't run with this long enough to know if any of the problems that Mark alluded to will show up or not though...

On the Tyan S2885 with the v2.02 BIOS, the discrete vs. continuous options for MTRR apply to the way that the BIOS maps the memory values, and will have an effect on whether the Nvidia driver will work with the card - AGP (discrete mapping) or just PCI (continuous mapping - with bandwidth limiting the OpenGL performance to about 10 to 15 percent of what it should be ). If you have it set to continuous (the default - I didn't know it had been added for a while, until Mark called it to my attention :) you will see messages in /var/log/messages when the Nvidia driver is loaded about the mtrr values being the wrong type (write-back vs. combining, or something like that - I am not at work now, so can't give the exact message :), and the card will be driven using just PCI. Changing the value to discrete clears this up, and the card will work with AGP.

Kevin Gassiot Advanced Systems Group Visualization Systems Support

Veritas DGC 10300 Town Park Dr. Houston, Texas 77072 832-351-8978 kevin_gassiot@veritasdgc.com

Ken Siersma

com> To

01/10/2005 12:23 cc

PM suse-amd64@suse.com

Subject

Re: [suse-amd64] System memory

missing - AGP card taking it?

Mark Horton wrote:

...

Ken Siersma wrote:

...

...

What is the chipset of your motherboard? I have a Asus A8V with a Via chipset that states that "with 4 GB of RAM the memory available will be a little less than 4GB due to the Southbridge resource allocation".

Alex

It is a Tyan S2885 Thunder K8W board - chipset AMD-8151.

If you don't have it already, get V2.02 of the tyan bios. There's an option in there that helps quite a bit. I have 8GB of ram and Suse sees virtually all of it. If I don't enable this option then it only sees about 7GB, so it makes a huge difference.

I can't remember the name of the option. But I think it should be set to 'discreet' if I remember correctly. I think its under the memory configuration section.

Mark

Mark,

Thanks. Changing the option that I think you are referring to (CPU Configuration: MTRR Mapping: Discrete) did not work for me. I still only see 3.26 GB.

-- Check the List-Unsubscribe header to unsubscribe For additional commands, email: suse-amd64-help@suse.com

Kevin, Thanks for your reply, it was very informative. Unfortunately changing the Adjust Memory option to Auto renders the machine unbootable, regardless of the MTRR Mapping setting. Right after the GRUB OS selection screen, the three lights on the keyboard flash and it reboots. Everything else in my BIOS is set to the Optimal defaults. I am disabling ACPI through Grub though. Ken -- Check the List-Unsubscribe header to unsubscribe For additional commands, email: suse-amd64-help@suse.com

Looking at the thread about the Tyan 4882, and the problem with SUSE 9.2 and systems having more than 4 GB of memory... On Tuesday 11 January 2005 08:57, Joe Landman wrote:

...

Folks:

We are still having significant problems getting these quad boards with 16 GB ram to work with SuSE 9.2 pro. We have verified that they work using other distributions (RHEL, and a few others).

The default Suse 9.2 kernel has problems with machines with 4G or more RAM. The latest update kernel fixes this. Boot with "mem=2G" and apply the latest updates with YOU. Reebot and you are good to go. Works for me.

/peter

I tried taking memory out of my system to get down to 2 GB. 9.1 and 9,2 will now boot. However, updating to the latest kernel update on 9.1 (which it looks like you are already on), the system will still not boot with 4 GB or more in it. Booting 9.2 with 2 GB of memory in it, and updating to the latest kernel via YOU, then putting the memory back in seemed to work. I booted with 8 GB of memory. Haven't had much chance to run anything, but you may have the option of going back to 9.0 and the 2.4 kernel, or going forward to 9.2 to stay on the 2.6 kernel (or try installing just the kernel rpms from the 9.2 update on your system if you don't want to do the whole install) .... Kevin Gassiot Advanced Systems Group Visualization Systems Support Veritas DGC 10300 Town Park Dr. Houston, Texas 77072 832-351-8978 kevin_gassiot@veritasdgc.com

Kevin_Gassiot@veritasdgc.com wrote:

Looking at the thread about the Tyan 4882, and the problem with SUSE 9.2 and systems having more than 4 GB of memory...

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 08:57, Joe Landman wrote:

...

...

Folks:

We are still having significant problems getting these quad boards with 16 GB ram to work with SuSE 9.2 pro. We have verified that they work using other distributions (RHEL, and a few others).

The default Suse 9.2 kernel has problems with machines with 4G or more

RAM.

...

The latest update kernel fixes this. Boot with "mem=2G" and apply the

latest

...

updates with YOU. Reebot and you are good to go. Works for me.

/peter

I tried taking memory out of my system to get down to 2 GB. 9.1 and 9,2 will now boot. However, updating to the latest kernel update on 9.1 (which it looks like you are already on), the system will still not boot with 4 GB or more in it.

Booting 9.2 with 2 GB of memory in it, and updating to the latest kernel via YOU, then putting the memory back in seemed to work. I booted with 8 GB of memory. Haven't had much chance to run anything, but you may have the option of going back to 9.0 and the 2.4 kernel, or going forward to 9.2 to stay on the 2.6 kernel (or try installing just the kernel rpms from the 9.2 update on your system if you don't want to do the whole install) ....

Kevin Gassiot Advanced Systems Group Visualization Systems Support

Veritas DGC 10300 Town Park Dr. Houston, Texas 77072 832-351-8978 kevin_gassiot@veritasdgc.com

Finally got back to this machine last week. I installed 9.2 on the machine with only 2 GB of RAM. I updated to the latest kernel (2.6.8-24.11, which I was surprised to see was only posted on 17 January, which was after you told me that you tried the latest kernel, so I'm not sure which kernel you are actually running). I set my Adjust Memory option in the BIOS to Auto, put in the other 2 GB of RAM, and same thing. It gets to grub, but then the 3 keyboard LEDs flash and it's back to the BIOS. By the way, when I have only 2 GB of RAM with the Adjust Memory option set to Auto it boots fine. It doesn't boot, on the other hand, if I have 4 GB of RAM with the Adjust Memory option set to Auto, and pass the kernel mem=2G. The other option that we discussed was MTRR Mapping, which I have set to 'Discrete'. I don't see what else you are doing that I'm not. All other BIOS settings (with a few minor adjustments) are set to the default optimal settings. I am booting with acpi=off, although I've left acpi on in the BIOS. Does anything else come to mind? Thanks, Ken

Andi Kleen wrote:

...

so I'm not sure which kernel you are actually running). I set my Adjust Memory option in the BIOS to Auto, put in the other 2 GB of RAM, and

That's the problem. This option doesn't seem to work reliably on the Tyan boards. Turn it off.

-Andi

Ah, but that seemed to be the only way according to Kevin Gassiot to get all 4 GB of my RAM to show up. Without it, I get only 3264 MB or so - varies depending on the AGP Aperture. I'll quote my original message, since I see it got lost in the replies. I see that you previously responded that you don't recommend using this option.

Sorry if this is not specifically an X86-64 question.

I have a Dual Opteron 250 with 4 GB of RAM with an NVIDIA QuadroFX 1100 card, with Suse 9.1 X86-64 installed with updates (kernel version 2.5.5-7.111.19-smp). The BIOS recognizes all 4 GB of RAM, but the OS only sees 3.26GB. I've been told this is because the video card is taking up system memory. But could it really be taking up this much?

Changing the AGP aperture size in the BIOS does affect how much RAM is occupied by the video card. Currently it is set to 32 MB. If I set it to the maximum of 512 MB, a measly 2.4GB are available.

I also thought this was strange - if I set the AGP aperture to 32 MB, and then try 1, 2, 3, and 4 GB, I see different percentages of system memory being unavailable. Here's what I see:

1 GB -> 91.8% 2 GB -> 95.2% 3 GB -> 96.4% 4 GB -> 81.5%

Is their anything I can do in Suse to give me back more of my system RAM? Seems like that last GB was a waste of money...

Thanks for any help you can offer. Ken

Andi Kleen wrote:

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 11:18:00AM -0500, Ken Siersma wrote:

...

Andi Kleen wrote:

...

...

so I'm not sure which kernel you are actually running). I set my Adjust Memory option in the BIOS to Auto, put in the other 2 GB of RAM, and

That's the problem. This option doesn't seem to work reliably on the Tyan boards. Turn it off.

-Andi

Ah, but that seemed to be the only way according to Kevin Gassiot to get all 4 GB of my RAM to show up. Without it, I get only 3264 MB or so - varies depending on the AGP Aperture.

Yeah, there is no way around it to the best of my knowledge (unless Tyan fixes their BIOS to make the system not instable with memory hoisting)

-Andi

I sent a message out to techsupport@tyan.com concerning this issue, and received a reply back that included a FAQ for the Thunder K8W. Two of the FAQs discussed this issue: First one: "Why does my OS see less than the total memory installed when I install 4GB or more of memory (typically 512MB less) The BIOS needs to overlay the APIC, ACPI Table, AGP Aperture and PCI MMIO (Memory-mapped I/O [see PCI Spec 2.3, Section 3.2.2 for more information]) over the last 512MB of the 4GB physical address space. OS accessible memoryand these structures cannot both exist at the same place and this portion of DRAM is hidden and unavailable to the OS." And the second one: "Is there a solution for the missing memory when using 4GB of total memory? Not easily, the theoretical possibility exists that the BIOS can map all of the addresses attached to one DIMM module above the 4GB limit, but the BIOS cannot move smaller address ranges piece by piece. Mapping a whole DIMM is a new concept, unproven in real world testing. It also penalizes 32-bit OS's that cannot use more than 4GB. Since the BIOS does not know what OS you have when it does the memory assignments, it has to optimize for the common case, which is likely a 32-bit OS you may or may not want to use. In a system with less than 4GB the BIOS must choose between providing as much as possible below 4GB to benefit 32-bit legacy OS users or raise one whole DIMM module above the 4GB ceiling to benefit 64-bit OS 's at the loss of DRAM to a much more memory limited 32-bit OS. The current release of the the S2885 bios incorporates the benefit to a 32 bit OS in regards to memory allocation. We have an alternative beta version that addresses the module being moved above the 4GB ceiling and that can be found on our FTP site: ftp://ftp.tyan.com/Chipset_AMD/K8/2885BIOS/" So basically, Tyan finds it more important to release a product that does not live up to it's potential so that it can satisfy the nincompoops who are running a 32-bit OS on a 64-bit capable processor, even though a 64-bit OS exists now? But, since they do offer this alternative BIOS, I wondered if any of you have tried it. Ken -- Ken Siersma, Software Engineer EKK, Inc. phone: (248) 624-9957 fax: (248) 624-7158 http://www.ekkinc.com -- "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -MLK Jr.