Mailinglist Archive: opensuse (4570 mails)
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Re: [SLE] ...and speaking of SuSE / Novell...
- From: "Steven T. Hatton" <hattons@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:55:37 +0000 (UTC)
- Message-id: <200511141155.52439.hattons@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On Monday 14 November 2005 11:18 am, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > On Monday 14 November 2005 07:16 am, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> > > On Monday 14 November 2005 03:21, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
> > Yes, perhaps she can use it, but what happens when she needs to
>
> prepare or use
>
> > an Excel spreadsheet?
>
> I agree this needs to be actively discussed and in a neutral fashion.
> The argument could degenerate into an "advocacy" forum, but hopefully
> will be kept above-board.
I would prefer to honestly say that OO (OpenOffice) will work perfectly with
all Excell spreadsheets. I have looked at neither Excell nor OO spreadsheet
in quite some time, but I would bet good money that compatability is far from
perfect. Furthermore, I find OO hard to use.
> I happen to agree with the current state of usage. There are many things
> which work great in *nix desktops. (I won't even agrue servers, since MS
> has no valid server offering.)
That really isn't true. I've seen lots of sites running NT Servers for
various purposes. I've also seen major projects switch to Unix and/or Linux
servers after a couple years of NT.
> Secretaries (and other non-geek workers) can mostly use Linux these days
> without assistance. As evidenced by my family members and friends using
> Linux systems, they are able to perform most tasks with ease.
Linux apps such as KMail are every bit as easy to use as their counterpart
from the monopolistic software vendor, or easier to use.
> There are - however - a few sticky points which IMO are causing the mass
> adoption necessary.
I assume you mean preventing the mass adoption. Be patient, and we all need
to be sure that Linux remains viable enough to feed core developers.
> First off is the lack of a unified look/feel for
> applicaitons. This is an issue in Windows apps, too, but more pronounced
> in *nix desktops. Take - for example - the file open/save dialogs in
> Gimp vs. the same in OpenOffice.
I'm mostly concerned with core functionality. Differences in L&F are less
significant than blatant lack of functionality. TTTT, the Gimp is not a
stellar example of a coherent GUI application. It is quite powerful, but
intuitive, it is not!
> As another fine example is the sorry
> state of printer management in Linux. Drivers aside, there needs to be
> something done to make printing easier from the desktop. For example,
> opening the printer manager and then requiring a password to reset jobs
> is not user-friendly. (Oh, and it apparently can't be the same password
> as root's.)
That really is a security issue that should be addressed by an experience
user. Yes, it's a hastel, but in an office, there will be some local jr.
guru who knows how to get around that. The trick is usually to give the
users the correct group membership. But Linux shall not become the security
swiss cheese that the monopolistic OS is.
> Now, I figure that - instead of just whining - I should do something.
> First off, I'm putting together an employee forum here at my work site
> (roughly 400 people) where I plan to introduce Linux and the concept
> behind OO apps. (Open source, not object oriented.) Second, I'm doing
> my best to learn C++. As I do, I'll start seeing how I can help the
> aforementioned projects obtain a better user-level functionality.
Reporting bugs, including wishlist items is a good way to help. The best
approach to getting Linux acceptance that I can think of is to tell people
this is about helping eachother, and not expecting some software vendor in
the sky to come down and save them. Linux is about cooperation. Convince
them that they are part of the product improvement process - because they
will be. That they own Linux - because they do. The price they pay is the
effort they put into making it work.
Steven
> > On Monday 14 November 2005 07:16 am, Kevin Donnelly wrote:
> > > On Monday 14 November 2005 03:21, Steven T. Hatton wrote:
> > Yes, perhaps she can use it, but what happens when she needs to
>
> prepare or use
>
> > an Excel spreadsheet?
>
> I agree this needs to be actively discussed and in a neutral fashion.
> The argument could degenerate into an "advocacy" forum, but hopefully
> will be kept above-board.
I would prefer to honestly say that OO (OpenOffice) will work perfectly with
all Excell spreadsheets. I have looked at neither Excell nor OO spreadsheet
in quite some time, but I would bet good money that compatability is far from
perfect. Furthermore, I find OO hard to use.
> I happen to agree with the current state of usage. There are many things
> which work great in *nix desktops. (I won't even agrue servers, since MS
> has no valid server offering.)
That really isn't true. I've seen lots of sites running NT Servers for
various purposes. I've also seen major projects switch to Unix and/or Linux
servers after a couple years of NT.
> Secretaries (and other non-geek workers) can mostly use Linux these days
> without assistance. As evidenced by my family members and friends using
> Linux systems, they are able to perform most tasks with ease.
Linux apps such as KMail are every bit as easy to use as their counterpart
from the monopolistic software vendor, or easier to use.
> There are - however - a few sticky points which IMO are causing the mass
> adoption necessary.
I assume you mean preventing the mass adoption. Be patient, and we all need
to be sure that Linux remains viable enough to feed core developers.
> First off is the lack of a unified look/feel for
> applicaitons. This is an issue in Windows apps, too, but more pronounced
> in *nix desktops. Take - for example - the file open/save dialogs in
> Gimp vs. the same in OpenOffice.
I'm mostly concerned with core functionality. Differences in L&F are less
significant than blatant lack of functionality. TTTT, the Gimp is not a
stellar example of a coherent GUI application. It is quite powerful, but
intuitive, it is not!
> As another fine example is the sorry
> state of printer management in Linux. Drivers aside, there needs to be
> something done to make printing easier from the desktop. For example,
> opening the printer manager and then requiring a password to reset jobs
> is not user-friendly. (Oh, and it apparently can't be the same password
> as root's.)
That really is a security issue that should be addressed by an experience
user. Yes, it's a hastel, but in an office, there will be some local jr.
guru who knows how to get around that. The trick is usually to give the
users the correct group membership. But Linux shall not become the security
swiss cheese that the monopolistic OS is.
> Now, I figure that - instead of just whining - I should do something.
> First off, I'm putting together an employee forum here at my work site
> (roughly 400 people) where I plan to introduce Linux and the concept
> behind OO apps. (Open source, not object oriented.) Second, I'm doing
> my best to learn C++. As I do, I'll start seeing how I can help the
> aforementioned projects obtain a better user-level functionality.
Reporting bugs, including wishlist items is a good way to help. The best
approach to getting Linux acceptance that I can think of is to tell people
this is about helping eachother, and not expecting some software vendor in
the sky to come down and save them. Linux is about cooperation. Convince
them that they are part of the product improvement process - because they
will be. That they own Linux - because they do. The price they pay is the
effort they put into making it work.
Steven
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