Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-gnome (61 mails)

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Re: [opensuse-gnome] Go Elsewhere?
  • From: Vincent Untz <vuntz@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 04:27:09 +0200
  • Message-id: <20080803022709.GE30855@xxxxxxxxx>
(yay for replies at 4AM... can't sleep :/)

Le vendredi 01 août 2008, à 11:24 -0500, Alberto Passalacqua a écrit :
Hi Vincent,

I'd love to know what's from 10.3 (or earlier) and what's from 11.0
here.

Yast-gtk is from 10.3 and 11.0.
PulseAudio/PackageKit/Tasque pushing is from 11.0.
Main-menu is from SLE/10.2/10.3, even though I think it should be
redesigned from scratch because of the app-browser.

Let's ignore things earlier than 11.0, since I can't tell anything about
this.

Yast-gtk in 11.0: I saw you referenced a crash in the printer stuff. I
never heard of this. I'm not saying I would have fixed it, but the fact
that I don't know about it probably also means that other people don't
know about it, which can help explain why it wasn't fixed in time.
(see my reply below about the list of things to fix, btw)

PulseAudio: as Rodrigo pointed out, the issues are mostly related to the
fact that it's not used by everything in openSUSE. You then reply that
it might have meant that it wasn't ready. My perception is that other
people didn't think it'd be useful to replace something that work for
them because they didn't see an big enough immediate benefit and
convincing them was really hard. I believe PA might get used by KDE too
in 11.1 (not sure, though), which will tremendously help. Maybe we
should have waited, but I would guess that if we had waited, we'd be in
the same situation for 11.1, and we'd need to convince people to use it.

PackageKit: I'm not aware of major bugs there, but I must admit I mainly
use zypper ;-) From what I can tell, though, this is more or less under
control, although it was probably ready a bit too late. But then maybe
having people help Scott would have helped too. And this means we need
more people helping (see below too).

Tasque: err. I'd hardly qualify this like a big problem since people
have to look for it to use it, don't they?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not denying the issues. But I think we disagree
on the reasons of those issues.

[skipping performance stuff]

I guess it depends -- maybe we're slower for PA, but maybe we're faster
for other things (and I actually think we are in some cases). But point
taken. The new bug triage policy should help with that (since we're
giving sense to priority). What could make sense too is to send some
weekly summary of the urgent things to fix for a stable release so
people can easily know what is needed and help. Would you or anybody
else want to help with that?

I think GNOME team is already one of the most bureaucratic of the whole
distribution, at least from what appears from the ML, so I'm not really
convinced that adding meetings, agendas, lists will help much.
I think bugzilla is out there for that purpose, bugs have priority
assignments (recently updated, btw), so it's somewhat a responsibility
of the team to take care of that.

I can understand why you see it as bureaucratic but the reason really is
that we want to have outside people know what's going on and we also
want to enable them to contribute. Maybe not with code or packaging, but
with decisions or testing. Having more people can only help us. The
bureaucratic look of all this is "only" a side-effect of being proactive
in community building.

As for my proposal: as a developer, this would *hugely* help me. Yes, I
have bugs in bugzilla and they're now prioritized in a good way. But you
know what? I don't look at bugs of other people. Having a small mail
from time to time would help me know what are the big issues. Maybe I
would be able to help with an urgent issue I'm not aware of. Now, I'm
talking only about me, but if other people are in the same situation as
I am, this means maybe many people could help if they were aware of the
issues.
And it's also a good way to put a bit more pressure, without annoying
the person who's assigned to the bug :-)
(maybe it would only help me, though, in which case all this can safely
be ignored)

Also, one thing which is still surprising for me (keep in mind I'm new
here ;-)) is that it's really hard to get updates out for a stable
release.

I agree. That is the updates policy inherited by the SuSE, where "only
security updates" were provided. I see the advantages: safer and only
required updates, but I also see the disadvantages we are experiencing.
I wonder if this approach is the best one for a community distribution,
where maybe a little bit more flexibility would be of help.

I would agree, but discussion about this probably belongs to
opensuse-project :-)

Vincent

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