Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (599 mails)

[Rajko M <rmatov101@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Per Jessen wrote:
> Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> 
>>> This is only a proposal - I really just wrote it up in five minutes.
>>> Maybe it's entirely in appropriate.
>>>
>>> Maybe the selection is 1-2-3 step:  Primary qualifier, secondary
>>> qualifier, plus add-ons (things you might want to do regardless of
>>> which type of system): "Experienced User", "Kernel development", ....
>> I don't like Experienced user - this should be split into several
>> patterns...
> 
> I haven't got the time to participate in this discussion right now, but
> I think it's very important.  I'd really like to work out a detailed
> proposal and then submit that for debate.  I still think that the user
> should be given the opportunity to define the role of the system using
> some predefined categories/roles, plus a number of auxilliary groups
> that aren't really tied to any role as such. 
> 
> I hope you guys haven't sorted it out by the time I'm back :-)
> 
> 
> /Per Jessen, Zürich

That is how I see the future of package management for non technical
users, and that is the reason to post skeleton of would be hardware
roles on:
http://en.opensuse.org/Patterns/Framework

I expected to see additions, changes, comments here and on wiki page.
The title "Framework" might be not really appropriate for "list of
hardware roles" alone, but that's a wiki, anyone can move it to more
appropriate named page and leave title Framework for more general topics
about patterns, like rules how to create them, what logic to follow by
package/subpattern inclusion etc.

Present discussion looks like we discuss selections that were renamed to
patterns with added ability to use whole selection as building element
for another selection.

Without defined computer roles that selection/pattern is build for, end
result will be:
- for end user similar to selection system, need for a lot of external
help and extra explanation what to install, starting with explanation of
basic terms like KDE, GNOME, X Window System (xorg) etc.
- for builders easier package management, as now it will be possible to
define macro package ie. pattern for inclusion in another
selection/pattern.

The word "pattern" suggests that the talk is about, for instance, "usage
patterns" (use cases) as base for software selection and that is what
every user new or old will understand easily. That means we should
define usage patterns, first, than fill the space with packages. Going
the other way around is possible for already known, often present usage
patterns like:
"IBM_PC_(and_compatible):[Home | Personal_Use]:Basic {Internet, etc},
and it will actually produce fast results, that are needed too, but for
a long run without
"Computer Usage Patterns [list | tree | classification | categorization]"
there will be  again a lot of overlapping and attempts to include too
much in every pattern just as it might be useful, and because there are
no general rules how to create pattern. BTW, that general rules would be
actual Pattern Framework.

Apropos name "pattern":
Pattern concept allows to nest and join package selections, so there are
actually at least 4 different meanings:
- Pattern as a concept
- General Pattern: top level pattern, computer role
- Pattern as a software selection
- Subpattern: as a part of bigger block, predefined software selection
that might be complex and used as stand alone installation, but it can
be small complement to main selection.

I'm sure that naming has to be discussed too as proper naming will help
a lot communication as well as pattern definition language work, and
as a side effect, prevent conversion of new and good idea back to fresh
painted old stuff.

-- 
Regards,
Rajko.
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