Mailinglist Archive: opensuse-factory (599 mails)

["Steve Barnhart" <stb52988@xxxxxxxxx>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Steve Barnhart <stb52988@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Aug 23, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Excess bloat must be removed!
To: suse@xxxxxxxxxx


> I won't comment on the backend integration stuff - but as a user you have
> three interfaces: YaST-qt (advanced), zen (simple) and rug (cli). Ubuntu has
> more or less the same - apt-get (cli), synaptic (adavanced) and
> their "add/remove software"-thingy (simple).

I suppose you're right, but YaST has become *so* slow and it has
always been slow, so hopefully (as i've been reading) this is getting
worked on for 10.2. Anyone know when exactly the GTK frontend for YaST
will be included? It would be nice to not have to have kdelibs and
base installed by default if I chose the GNOME desktop. And I
basically have to use zen now mostly for updates since atleast it
includes a notification since suseplugger was removed.

basically my problem with zen (besides the slowness of it, head its
being worked on), is that its so confusing and would probably be more
confusing to new users. Zen needs to show _1_ version of each package.
If I'm using zen-updater, only show updates if I'm in zen-installer
show the newest version (also some kind of icon/way to notify me if my
version is older). And its so unstable that I don't even use it to
install packages anymore. It freezes on dependency checking sometimes,
othertimes who knows what it is doing.

> > and Finally, and this is my big peeve. FIX THE FREAKIN MENUS! The
> > organization takes WAY too much time and maybe it won't matter if slab
> > is integrated but we do not need categories and then ANOTHER category
>
> Having two levels of categories is a must. I have ~20 Internet-apps - if they
> weren't put into subcategories it would be a complete mess like most Windows
> menus are. Besides if you stayed current with SUSE news you'd know that
> Novell have developed the SLED gnome-main-menu thingy for people like
> yourself - and the good people at SUSE are working on a similiar menu for KDE
> based on usability testing and what not.

I know about slab (as I mentioned) in fact, who doesn't? Its an
awesome feature and yes, that will likely clear up my problem as long
as it can do what launchy and quicksilver do and jus as fast (as in
typing the application clickly, finding the match and executing).

> > I know 10.1 was a bad apple, but hopefully this stuff is vastly cleared up.
>
> To my recollection the menus and amount of apps on 10.1 was exactly the same
> on previous releases. None of your criticism except the package management
> frontends are 10.1 specific.

Well I was more talking about the mess that zen is right now and the
entire slow feel of the distro.

> Except for two webbrowsers, I don't have more than one app that does the same
> thing on a standard install. And seamonkey is not installed by default.
>
> I'd hate to see SUSE turn into Ubuntu. If Ubuntu with SUSE polish is what you
> want I think you should join the Ubuntu mailinglists and suggest to them that
> they polish their distro more.
>
> I like about SUSE that functionality is a higher priority than not confusing
> already confused people - which I consider an impossible task anyway.

Then I must have installed seamonkey and some stuff while trying to
get rid of the online updates during installation! Its never done that
before but on 10.1 after I told it I would update it showed me *all*
updates instead of ones relevant to what's installed and kept coming
up even after installing all of the updates that applied to me. I had
to click cancel just for it to go away and move to the next step. As
was proposed earlier, maybe if only one type of application for each
category is installed do not go to second level. It may be nice for
you people who have 20+ internet apps but it takes us with a couple
much longer.

I don't neccessarily see everything bad about Ubuntu. Yes SUSE has
Yast and I LOVE it (if it can be sped up) and other distros are at a
disadvantage because of it. SUSE also has the next thing I love more
than almost anything (besides actually working and speed ha) and that
is polish..LOTS of it :). BUT that's not saying SUSE can't trim their
packages more (IE not be a 2.8 GB default install just by choosing
GNOME). But if what was said earlier is true (trimming down to 3 cds
and such) good, hopefully that is carried down to installation.

--
Steve


--
Steve
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