July 2010 - openSUSE Project - openSUSE Mailing Lists

[opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Discussion: Base for derivatives
by Pavol Rusnak 07 Jul '10

07 Jul '10

Hello again! As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the second of strategies: Base for derivatives[2]. [1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/a-strategy-for- the-opensuse-project-proposals-and-discussions/ [2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Derivatives ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- openSUSE - Base for derivatives ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1.) Statement: We are a diverse active and inviting community delivering the best foundation for Linux derivatives by providing a high quality, long-term supported core distribution, with tools and infrastructure to easily build on top of it. We encourage projects and developers to create additional building blocks and specialized spin-offs and provide a platform to make them visible and appreciated. The center of this strategy is a high quality and long-term supported core distribution surrounded by tools to build derivatives which includes remote system administration. Behind that we will have a marketing team spreading the word about our Project and the derivatives made with it. Additionally, we will provide derivatives for desktops, server usage, software and web development. To be successful we see the collaboration with upstream and other Linux distributions as a key factor in providing quality derivatives. 2.) Key ideas: * reduce the number of packages in Factory - provide smaller, stable, high quality core distro - provide Long Term Support (LTS) for this reduced set - core suitable for servers - available for more platforms (including ARM, PowerPC, etc.) * provide platform for building derivatives around core distro (onion model) - building blocks - software grouped by theme (Build Service - repositories) - infrastructure for building spinoffs (Build Service - kiwi image build / SUSE Studio) - spin-offs promotion ("gallery" for spin-offs with ratings, download links, etc.) * support diversity - openSUSE as a base for MeeGo, OpenWRT and other projects - desktop spin-offs for users (KDE, GNOME, LXDE, Xfce) - specialized spin-offs like Education, Photo edition 3.) Activities: 3.a.) We need to be excellent in the following: * provide stable core packages with LTS (Factory) * openSUSE Build Service * provide tools for remote system administration * process/mechanism to qualify those custom distribution for usage of openSUSE name/trademark * large testing of various OBS repositories combinations 3.b.) We will try to do the following effectively: * provide the openSUSE distro as it is today (no long term support) * provide environment for web development (webserver/database stack) * provide development tools for C/C++, Java, C#, J, Python, Ruby, ... * collaboration with upstream * collaboration with other Linux distros 3.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore: * There are many packages that exist in Factory and we don't know if they are used or needed. We'll have them in major OBS projects only. -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Boosters Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9 prusnak[at]opensuse.org Czech Republic -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] who makes unannounced repo structure changes?
by DenverD 07 Jul '10

07 Jul '10

a post from the forum http://forums.opensuse.org/english/news/announcements/441578-build-service-… which announces to the unsuspecting: -------quote--------------- "User please be aware of changes to the URL structure for certain repositories in the Build Service, particularly KDE. Use the repository manager in Yast to remove the old one/s and add in the new address. If your repositories were added by a OneClick installer, you might find this procedure a little tricky. In which case, reply to this thread with ... -------end quote ---------- and i wonder if anyone on this oS-project ML knows who is changing the structure of the repos with no pre-warning to the world wide user base nor instructions on how to solve the problems the changes causes to YaST, YOU or zypper?? or maybe i missed both...i only checked the Weekly News and front pages of opensuse-community.org, opensuse.org and googled for repo change in the last week at both.. where should i have looked? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE conference meeting on July 8 at 1300UTC on #openSUSE-project
by Michael Loeffler 07 Jul '10

07 Jul '10

Hi, the program committee meets tomorrow at 1300 UTC (3pm CEST, 9am EST) in our IRC channel #openSUSE-project to discuss current status and next steps for the openSUSE conference. Feel free to join. Best Michael -- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Re: openSUSE versioning scheme (was Re: [opensuse-factory] Re: [opensuse-buildservice] Can we please get ARM builds for 11.3+1?)
by Andreas Jaeger 06 Jul '10

06 Jul '10

On Saturday 03 July 2010 10:11:48 Vincent Untz wrote: > (I'm setting Mail-Followup-To to opensuse-project, since that's where > this discussion should happen, but I agree we might want to wait for the > end of the strategy discussion) > > Le samedi 03 juillet 2010, à 09:10 +0200, Martin Schlander a écrit : > > Fredag den 2. juli 2010 17:05:06 skrev Andreas Jaeger: > > > On Friday 02 July 2010 16:56:04 Thomas Schmidt wrote: > > > > Shouldn't we call this 12.0? > > > > Reassigning the features afterwards would be additional work. > > > > > > Naming of the next release is a separate discussion we might have. > > > I'm opposed to both 11.4 and 12.0 and look forward to great > > > proposals, > > > > Let's not get too creative here. No funky codenames! :-) > > We actually have code names, and it's the shades of greens. 11.3 is > Teal. We just don't advertize this -- yet. (I think we should). > > > We should go for a simple numbering scheme, that doesn't cause the > > confusion that the old one has (a lot of people give different > > meanings to the numbers, even though they don't mean a thing - other > > than of course x.1 meaning "unusually buggy"). > > > > Either do it the Fedora way. openSUSE 12, 13, 14 etc. > > > > Or the Mandriva way 2011.0, 2011.1, 2012.0 etc. > > (Or the Ubuntu way, except that it doesn't work well with the next > version which would be 11.03: 11.03, 11.12, 12.07) > > One technical side of the decision that was pointed out in an earlier > discussion is that we want to keep some suse_version compatibility. That > means we still need to have, somehow, 11.3 < $nextversion. I'm unsure if > it's really a hard limitation, though: we could do something like > Solaris/SunOS where we have an internal scheme for technical purposes > and an external one (Solaris 10 == SunOS 5.10). It makes things a bit > complex, though, so there has to be a really good reason to do so ;-) > > > Or something similar. But maybe it would be best to await the > > conclusion of the strategy discussion before making any more major > > project decisions. > > I just want to point out that the fact we'll get a decision for a > strategy is also a good opportunity to change the versioning scheme: > it's a good way to signal the change in the project. > > There are also other reasons to change it, like the fact that the > current scheme is hardly understandable by many (most?), leading to the > 11.4/12.0 confusion we're seeing. What I would propose for now is to create a simple wiki page summarizing the current state with pros and cons for changing of the version number, and start collecting alternatives, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj(a){novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] openSUSE Strategy Discussion: Mobile and cloud ready distribution
by Pavol Rusnak 06 Jul '10

06 Jul '10

Hi all! As we promised earlier[1] starting today we'll be discussing the third of strategies: Mobile and cloud ready distribution[2]. Please try to add your comments to particular bulletpoints or sentences, so it is easier for us to merge your suggestions into final form. Happy discussing! [1] http://news.opensuse.org/2010/06/17/a-strategy-for- the-opensuse-project-proposals-and-discussions/ [2] http://en.opensuse.org/Documents/Strategy/Mobile ----8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<--------8<---- openSUSE - Mobile and cloud ready distribution ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1.) Statement: We are the Linux distribution that embraces a mobile and social world backed by cloud data services delivering a desktop experience best integrated with those platforms. In addition, we deliver a server solution to host the data and the development tools for those platforms and devices. Our target customers are professionals, developers, IT departments, and mobile consumers. 2.) Use cases: Fred wants to sync his bookmarks, addresses, files, application data, etc. between his desktop machines and mobile devices via the cloud in a seamless manner. Next year, his company plans to run their own private cloud server infrastructure instead of using a public service. Fred also wants to easily connect to the most common social network services out-of-the-box when he installs openSUSE. 3.) Background: We have discussed our expectations for the future and we understand the "Google vision" where Google (as well as other companies but Google is the prime example here) hosts all data that then follows mobile users to wherever they are and whatever kind of (mobile) device they have. Our tweak here is that we think some customers do not wish to use the public infrastructure for their data. 4.) Activities: 4.a.) We need to be excellent in the following: * Create connectivity server for private cloud data service * Support client connectivity to cloud services hosted by others, e.g. Google * Support connectivity to our private cloud service * Establish easy client setup of connectivity and social services * Create Tools for remote administration via smart phones of Linux Desktop incl. WebYaST * Ensure remote administration tools are optimized for use with devices (e.g. YaSTroid) * Deliver integrated development tools for mobile platforms, e.g. Android, MeeGo and WebOS SDKs * Collaborate with Android / Meego / WebOS (not Apple as it is a closed system) * Lobby for open standards for mobile data access 4.b.) We will try to do the following effectively: * Deliver a distribution integrating mobile connectivity * Deliver a build service for building distribution and applications * Provide multiple desktop experiences for everyone wishing to use mobile services * Provide SUSE specific packages: YaST, zypper, AutoYaST, ... * Provide the best social service apps out of the box and make sure users easily find them and configure them * Bugfixing * Testing * Feeding back patches to upstream * Collaboration with upstream * Collaboration with other Linux distros 4.c.) As project, we will not focus on the following anymore: * applications that don't integrate with the mobile world -- Best Regards / S pozdravom, Pavol RUSNAK SUSE LINUX, s.r.o openSUSE Boosters Team Lihovarska 1060/12 PGP 0xA6917144 19000 Praha 9 prusnak[at]opensuse.org Czech Republic -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Why I wont use the forums
by Stephan Kleine 06 Jul '10

06 Jul '10

Dear list, after having read all those "why I wont use the forums" posts, to which I certainly contributed my share with my "venomous" post I got fed up with it and am somehow wondering how to improve that since we all should be supposed to pull on the same string. So, can we just cut that right now and here and instead find out some way how to make those forums more attractive for the people who are currently not using them and OTOH making forum users create more productive bug reports since "reporting by proxy" is NO option IMHO? Regarding the problem: I think it has been established by now that those forums are considered some swamp that makes it very hard to find out some interesting topic one would like to get involved in (may it be because one is interested in the topic or one maintains a package that is related to it). Which is why most people apparently simply don't bother with said forums. OTOH you, the forum admins, have been asked quite some times to introduce some subtopics targeting more specific needs. So could you please reconsider your stance and admit that it will be easier to find "interesting" topics one might be inclined to get involved in if one doesn't have to wade through loads of other stuff? Your, the forum admins`, answer was mostly that said subtopics are already covered by their parent ones (e.g. applications for servers and security). OTOH you happily run some "64-bit" subforum which makes no sense IMHO since this nowadays boils down to having to install the necessary 32-bit compat libs for some binary blobs (e.g. skype). So, to make it short: Can you, the forum admins, please agree that introducing some subforums for specific topics makes it much easier to find "interesting" posts for the "contributor" / "dev" so those would be more inclined to get involved and can we please get some list together of "interesting" topics so those get realized? Point simply being adding some subforum doesn't cost a single $ but makes it much easier to find - personally - "interesting" topics so one gets more inclined to get involved. From my personal POV I would be delighted to see: 1. a "security" one for stuff like apparmor, selinux, ssl with certificates, general server hardening and so on 2. a "server" one for stuff like apache, php, samba, XEN, KVM, general virtualization and so on. Please add some topics you (the "currently not using the forums dude") would like to see so you could more easily identify the topics you are interested in so you might be even more inclined to participate in that forums. Last but not least I'm seriously wondering on those "reporting in bugzilla for forum users" discussion. So could you, the forum admins and users, please make it plain clear to your fellow users that: 1. To report something broken there is only ONE place and that is http://bugzilla.novell.com/ 2. If you (the random user) don't like the interface then welcome to the club but until someone writes a new one this wont change. 3. Reporting a bug as a proxy is plain useless since you (the proxy reporter) will never be able to answer any follow up questions. And here comes the most important one: 4. You need NO knowledge to report a bug but are simply supposed to explain as best as you can what you did to produce that bug. Then the devs will simply ask what you did, if it isn't clear, and tell you what information they need to fix it. If you don't know how to provide that info then simply ASK. Every single dev I know is perfectly happy to tell you how to provide the requested information so really all that is required from you is to create a bugreport, do the best you can and then simply be receptive. Ok, that got quite lengthy, sorry for that and thanks for sticking with me. Please keep it productive. regards, Stephan. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Fwd: [MeeGo-community] MeeGo Developer Engagement meeting, 5th July, minutes
by Andreas Jaeger 06 Jul '10

06 Jul '10

It's sometimes interessant what other projects do. Here's an email from the MeeGo project on what they plan for developer engagement. We should keep references for these topics somewhere. I'll ask on the wiki list for suggestions, Andreas ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [MeeGo-community] MeeGo Developer Engagement meeting, 5th July, minutes Date: Monday 05 July 2010, 22:29:44 From: Robin Burchell <viroteck(a)viroteck.net> To: meego-community(a)meego.com Hi all, Firstly, I'd like to thank you all very much for attending - the response was much bigger than I anticipated, and there was a lot of healthy interest which was great to see at such an early stage. The minutes of the meeting may be found at: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego- meeting.2010-07-05-18.59.html The full log (for the morbidly curious) may be found at: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego- meeting.2010-07-05-18.59.log.html We have a number of action items to follow up on, including a few people working on material for classes - and possibly tutorial style usage - already (thanks, Venemo and Nathrai!). Another meeting will be scheduled and (_properly_, Gary, _properly_!) announced to follow up with the progress in a few weeks and to see where to go from there. Should anyone have any questions/suggestions/want to volunteer themselves for slavery, please don't hesitate to contact me in some way. Best Regards, -- Robin Burchell http://rburchell.com _______________________________________________ MeeGo-community mailing list MeeGo-community(a)meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-community ----------------------------------------- -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE, aj(a){novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

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[opensuse-project] Ohio Booth Masters needed
by Bryen M. Yunashko 05 Jul '10

05 Jul '10

The Ohio Linux Fest is in Columbus, Ohio September 10-12. While we have some possible submissions for presentations currently awaiting acceptance, we also need to get some people to volunteer to man an openSUSE Booth. If you are in the Ohio area or a nearby state, please volunteer to help spread the good word of openSUSE. Hotel rates at the nearby Drury is $99, and if you split up with others, then it gets much cheaper. Room can accommodate up to 4 people. Let us know if you can do this so we can make the preparations for a booth. Thanks! Bryen M Yunashko openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Marketing Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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[opensuse-project] Logging related
by "Horváth Gergely J. (Ottó)" 04 Jul '10

04 Jul '10

Hello everyone! I had some discussions on IRC about logging in OpenSUSE and promised to start a thread here on the ML. I have done a little research among distributions, to have a bigger perspective, and based on that, I have some ideas and questions. More important ones first: * OpenSUSE should log auth and authpriv messages separately (like "all" other distributions do). We certainly can not start a great debate on what to log and where, but I would like to mention some other points too: * OpenSUSE does not log crond messages separately (while nearly "all" other ditros do). Note: This might seem like a "what to log separately and what not to" question, but considering mail as a general service and thus logging it in a separate file - in contrast to crond - make me think of an advise: "Add a filter to crond if you plan to use that special service a lot - thus spamming your messages log file" :) * Logging some messages to other files, should not we filter them out from messages? (I did not check this one, it might be daemon specific (like ntp), but one with a deeper insight could check it). One last note, for those who might ask about "other distributions do it": Please do not misunderstand me, I do not want OpenSUSE to become like the others, but a nice, general harmony (maybe not only in logging style) could be achieved among the distributions, so people using different linuxes could feel more confortable :) Thank you, Looking forward for your feedback, Gregory -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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Re: [opensuse-project] Naming registered members of openSUSE (fwd)
by Jan Engelhardt 03 Jul '10

03 Jul '10

---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 21:19:12 From: Otso <ojrajala(a)gmail.com> To: the wrong address. Subject: Re: [opensuse-project] Naming registered members of openSUSE Defining people as "registered members" sounds much better than core member. It's also much clearer for outside observers to understand who are invited, and, if they are interested, they simultaneously get a clue that they need to register somewhere to participate. Cheers, Otso On Jul 3, 2010 8:37 PM, "Jan Engelhardt" <jengelh(a)medozas.de> wrote: On Saturday 2010-07-03 15:20, Rajko M. wrote: > >I vote for name "Core member" as it describes what... But since you cannot quantify as to whether they do that, they should really be called Registered Member instead. >I would like to propose to introduce one more category of members that will be >source for Core m... Language nitpick: "Distinguished Contributor". -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-ma... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe(a)opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help(a)opensuse.org

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