[opensuse-factory] Xfce Pattern modifications
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern: - add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing) - replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems) - replace Evince with Xreader (part of X-Apps: fork of Evince with menu-bar instead of CSD) - replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management) - replace File-roller with Engrampa (part of MATE: fork of file-roller with menu-bar instead of CSD) - replace Totem with Parole (Parole is an Xfce app, thus more suitable to the be included) The suggestions above are for the use of native Xfce and also related X-apps over Gnome apps which since the introduction of Client Side Decoration (CSD), they don't integrate well with the look and feel of Xfce, which does not use CSD system-wide. X-Apps were created by Linux Mint as forks of Gnome GTK 3 apps, targeting Xfce, MATE and Cinnamon. The core ideas for X-Apps are: - To use modern toolkits and technologies (GTK3 for HiDPI support, gsettings etc..) - To use traditional user interfaces (titlebars, menubars) - To work everywhere (to be generic, desktop-agnostic and distro-agnostic) - To provide the functionality users already enjoy (or enjoyed in the past for distributions which already lost some functionality) - To be backward-compatible (in order to work on as many distributions as possible) Here is a good summary of what they are: https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_sarah_cinnamon_whatsnew.php All the mentioned apps are already part of the openSUSE distribution if you wish to try them. Best Regards, Maurizio Galli (MauG) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/25/18 9:14 AM, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern:
- add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing)
Worth having.
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain. Personally, I prefer DigiKam, would be nice to see that added, but it is not difficult to install.
- replace File-roller with Engrampa (part of MATE: fork of file-roller with menu-bar instead of CSD)
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
- replace Totem with Parole (Parole is an Xfce app, thus more suitable to the be included)
Totem is not even installed on any of my Xfce installations, so I guess it is not installed by default, anyway. Thanks -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Ok. Shotwell is also a good software and still uses menu-bar so I will keep it as it is.
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
I would still push for this change. File-roller and Engrampa are
virtually the same and have also the same integration in Thunar. I'd
rather not add "duplicate" apps to the pattern to avoid bloat.
Engrampa: https://github.com/mate-desktop/engrampa
File-Roller: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller
Maurizio Galli (MauG)
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:40 AM Fraser_Bell
On 10/25/18 9:14 AM, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern:
- add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing)
Worth having.
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Personally, I prefer DigiKam, would be nice to see that added, but it is not difficult to install.
- replace File-roller with Engrampa (part of MATE: fork of file-roller with menu-bar instead of CSD)
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
- replace Totem with Parole (Parole is an Xfce app, thus more suitable to the be included)
Totem is not even installed on any of my Xfce installations, so I guess it is not installed by default, anyway.
Thanks
-- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
First of all Gerry and Carlos, my apologies as I realized that this morning I replied to you individually instead of opensuse-factory. I tried again later but for some reason emails are not showing up in the opensuse-factory archive and after 6 hours since I sent them, I'm assuming they might not have gone through. If I'm wrong I'm sorry for the spam today. I'll recap my answers here below:
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Ok. Shotwell is also a good software and still uses menu-bar so I will keep it as it is.
They don't look the same thing to me... Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
They are not the same thing. I suggested Pix as a completely different software but I'm ok to keep Shotwell as it still integrates well in Xfce. However, the version of Pix in Leap 42.3 is rather old 1.4.5 vs TW 1.8.2. Also the pattern change if accepted will most likely only affect TW and maybe Leap 15.1.
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
I would still push for this change. File-roller and Engrampa are
virtually the same and have also the same integration in Thunar. I'd
rather not add "duplicate" apps to the pattern to avoid bloat.
Engrampa: https://github.com/mate-desktop/engrampa
File-Roller: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller
Best Regards,
Maurizio Galli (MauG)
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 4:40 AM Fraser_Bell
On 10/25/18 9:14 AM, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern:
- add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing)
Worth having.
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Personally, I prefer DigiKam, would be nice to see that added, but it is not difficult to install.
- replace File-roller with Engrampa (part of MATE: fork of file-roller with menu-bar instead of CSD)
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
- replace Totem with Parole (Parole is an Xfce app, thus more suitable to the be included)
Totem is not even installed on any of my Xfce installations, so I guess it is not installed by default, anyway.
Thanks
-- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 26/10/2018 11.13, Maurizio Galli wrote:
First of all Gerry and Carlos, my apologies as I realized that this morning I replied to you individually instead of opensuse-factory. I tried again later but for some reason emails are not showing up in the opensuse-factory archive and after 6 hours since I sent them, I'm assuming they might not have gone through. If I'm wrong I'm sorry for the spam today.
No problem :-)
I'll recap my answers here below:
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Ok. Shotwell is also a good software and still uses menu-bar so I will keep it as it is.
They don't look the same thing to me... Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
They are not the same thing. I suggested Pix as a completely different software but I'm ok to keep Shotwell as it still integrates well in Xfce. However, the version of Pix in Leap 42.3 is rather old 1.4.5 vs TW 1.8.2. Also the pattern change if accepted will most likely only affect TW and maybe Leap 15.1.
I tried also in tumbleweed this morning, and it lacks many features that shotwell has, just about seeing photos. I did not check manipulating photos (changing lights or contrast), nor importing photos from camera on TW. On Leap 42.3 it did not even see one of my cameras - I can test more cameras, but I tried the one that was handy. But for viewing photos, I expect that it does at least the same as Shotwell: It has to be able to sort by event. Currently it displays by directory tree. It has to be able to display the photo tags that were added with shotwell (at least those stored inside the photo as metadata). It has to be able to display the comments on each photo, if they exist. It has to be able to recognize and properly display RAW photos (.NEF in my case), and recognize that the RAW photo is the master one when there are both a RAW and a developed copy. And recognize that shotwell might have added its own copy, so do not display the three as three photos, but one. It is also possible that the camera only provides the RAW photo, and PIX is unable to zoom into them, it only displays the embedded thumbnail . - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCW9MH3wAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1XzUAJsG4CFvVJkOH1Cqwhb/dAjSJf4QHgCeNVnfIAWzUwD7Xy37EN0Wzez/3F0= =Oarq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/10/2018 22:56, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 26/10/2018 11.13, Maurizio Galli wrote:
First of all Gerry and Carlos, my apologies as I realized that this morning I replied to you individually instead of opensuse-factory. I tried again later but for some reason emails are not showing up in the opensuse-factory archive and after 6 hours since I sent them, I'm assuming they might not have gone through. If I'm wrong I'm sorry for the spam today.
No problem :-)
I'll recap my answers here below:
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Ok. Shotwell is also a good software and still uses menu-bar so I will keep it as it is.
They don't look the same thing to me... Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
They are not the same thing. I suggested Pix as a completely different software but I'm ok to keep Shotwell as it still integrates well in Xfce. However, the version of Pix in Leap 42.3 is rather old 1.4.5 vs TW 1.8.2. Also the pattern change if accepted will most likely only affect TW and maybe Leap 15.1.
I tried also in tumbleweed this morning, and it lacks many features that shotwell has, just about seeing photos. I did not check manipulating photos (changing lights or contrast), nor importing photos from camera on TW. On Leap 42.3 it did not even see one of my cameras - I can test more cameras, but I tried the one that was handy.
But for viewing photos, I expect that it does at least the same as Shotwell:
It has to be able to sort by event. Currently it displays by directory tree.
It has to be able to display the photo tags that were added with shotwell (at least those stored inside the photo as metadata).
It has to be able to display the comments on each photo, if they exist.
It has to be able to recognize and properly display RAW photos (.NEF in my case), and recognize that the RAW photo is the master one when there are both a RAW and a developed copy. And recognize that shotwell might have added its own copy, so do not display the three as three photos, but one.
It is also possible that the camera only provides the RAW photo, and PIX is unable to zoom into them, it only displays the embedded thumbnail .
You sound like an advanced user here, remember with patterns we are looking at whats best for a "normal" user and given xfce's lighter nature putting in a lighter weight image viewer with less features kinda makes sence, lets face it many users just want something that lets them flick through the memes they downloaded from the internet. I don't know why you'd expect another app to understand shotwells tag format unless it uses a common standard, given these things should only be recommended in the pattern you can always uninstall pix and install shotwell. If you want I could even teach you how to create "carlos' magical pattern" in your home repo that installs the exact list of software you want :-) -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 26/10/2018 14.40, Simon Lees wrote:
You sound like an advanced user here, remember with patterns we are looking at whats best for a "normal" user and given xfce's lighter nature putting in a lighter weight image viewer with less features kinda makes sence, lets face it many users just want something that lets them flick through the memes they downloaded from the internet.
I don't know why you'd expect another app to understand shotwells tag format unless it uses a common standard, given these things should only be recommended in the pattern you can always uninstall pix and install shotwell. If you want I could even teach you how to create "carlos' magical pattern" in your home repo that installs the exact list of software you want :-)
If I were advanced, I'd use Digikam :-p My objection is to consider Pix as a replacement to Shotwell. No, it is far from it. If you propose it as an application to see photos, then Ok. But not as replacement to shotwell because it is not. A replacement must be able to do the same things. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCW9MTLgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1dtCAJ4jruBMiR8a+rf5ehqEkZc0PGcZAwCeNqLrwPxLIJBM75nWP5LaTK+GINs= =LYrO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/10/2018 23:44, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 26/10/2018 14.40, Simon Lees wrote:
You sound like an advanced user here, remember with patterns we are looking at whats best for a "normal" user and given xfce's lighter nature putting in a lighter weight image viewer with less features kinda makes sence, lets face it many users just want something that lets them flick through the memes they downloaded from the internet.
I don't know why you'd expect another app to understand shotwells tag format unless it uses a common standard, given these things should only be recommended in the pattern you can always uninstall pix and install shotwell. If you want I could even teach you how to create "carlos' magical pattern" in your home repo that installs the exact list of software you want :-)
If I were advanced, I'd use Digikam :-p
My objection is to consider Pix as a replacement to Shotwell. No, it is far from it. If you propose it as an application to see photos, then Ok. But not as replacement to shotwell because it is not. A replacement must be able to do the same things.
I was suggesting the pattern potentially just needs something to view photo's and if people want more then that they can install there preferred application be it shotwell digikam or something else. Simple google searches will send new users to sites like https://itsfoss.com/linux-photo-management-software/ to help them decide for themselves. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 10/26/18 2:13 AM, Maurizio Galli wrote:
First of all Gerry and Carlos, my apologies as I realized that this morning I replied to you individually instead of opensuse-factory. I tried again later but for some reason emails are not showing up in the opensuse-factory archive and after 6 hours since I sent them, I'm assuming they might not have gone through. If I'm wrong I'm sorry for the spam today.
No problem here, Maurizio. Reading them over again and again kinda implants them in my old brain. LOL
I'll recap my answers here below:
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Ok. Shotwell is also a good software and still uses menu-bar so I will keep it as it is.
Thanks. Yes, Shotwell should stay, thank you. As for my mention of DigiKam, I did not seriously suggest it be added. As I said, it can always be pulled in by anyone who is that serious about their photography.
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
I would still push for this change. File-roller and Engrampa are virtually the same and have also the same integration in Thunar. I'd rather not add "duplicate" apps to the pattern to avoid bloat. Engrampa: https://github.com/mate-desktop/engrampa File-Roller: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/file-roller
Okay, no problem with that for me, either. It was more of a question-suggestion. Note that I did not even look at Engrampa, so it was not a fully-informed suggestion either. I'm good with your decision. -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/10/2018 22:40, Fraser_Bell wrote:
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
Why use KDE editors -- and indeed 2 of them -- under a Gtk desktop? Just curious.
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Vote against. Duplication = bad.
Personally, I prefer DigiKam, would be nice to see that added, but it is not difficult to install.
Again, a KDE app, AIUI?
Keep File-roller for those who have become used to it, *add* Engrampa for those who would choose it?
Vote against. A very strong *no* to duplication. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/10/2018 11.22, Liam Proven wrote:
On 25/10/2018 22:40, Fraser_Bell wrote:
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
Why use KDE editors -- and indeed 2 of them -- under a Gtk desktop? Just curious.
Keep Shotwell. Go ahead and *add* Pix, if you like, but many long time Shotwell users, so it should remain.
Vote against. Duplication = bad.
It is not duplication. Pix is a terrible substitution for shotwell, it can not do half of what shotwell does. Pix can not read tags and comments from Shotwell, nor the events. Can not read NEF raw photos. Does not see that the NEF and the JPG are the same photo. No, absolutely not. PIX is not up to the task. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
On 26/10/2018 19:52, Liam Proven wrote:
On 25/10/2018 22:40, Fraser_Bell wrote:
To me, this does not matter. I remove leafpad/mousepad from my installations, install and use Kate & kWrite.
Why use KDE editors -- and indeed 2 of them -- under a Gtk desktop? Just curious.
Pick the best apps for what your trying to achieve. Back in the day I used to use pretty much exclusively kde3 apps with gnome2, kde apps had more features but i prefered some of the functionality in the gnome desktop. Now I use enlightenment with what ever app works best for me. You can even make everything look mostly the same. -- Simon Lees (Simotek) http://simotek.net Emergency Update Team keybase.io/simotek SUSE Linux Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30 GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
On 26/10/2018 14:28, Simon Lees wrote:
Pick the best apps for what your trying to achieve. Back in the day I used to use pretty much exclusively kde3 apps with gnome2, kde apps had more features but i prefered some of the functionality in the gnome desktop. Now I use enlightenment with what ever app works best for me. You can even make everything look mostly the same.
Well, yes, I realise that. I ran k3b as my CD burner for years, under GNOME 2 and later under Unity, as it was the best-of-breed. But in this particular case, I didn't (and don't) think there is anything very special about these 2 apps -- Kate & kWrite are just fairly ordinary text editors, aren't they? -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/26/18 7:31 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
But in this particular case, I didn't (and don't) think there is anything very special about these 2 apps -- Kate & kWrite are just fairly ordinary text editors, aren't they?
Nope. See my previous answer. ;-) -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 27/10/2018 02:01, Fraser_Bell wrote:
Nope.
See my previous answer. ;-)
After some hunting... It seemed to be a *later* answer, AFAICS. You say that you like them, and for what tasks you like them... but not _why_, ISTM? -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 25/10/2018 18.14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern:
- add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing)
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
Are you sure "mousepad" is the correct name? Because to me I think of a mouse pad as something to put beneath the mouse, usually made of some type of rubber.
- replace Evince with Xreader (part of X-Apps: fork of Evince with menu-bar instead of CSD)
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
pix - Image viewer and browser utility pix lets you browse your hard disk, showing you thumbnails of image files. It also lets you view single files (including GIF animations), add comments to images, organise images in catalogs, print images, view slide shows, set your desktop background, and more. shotwell - Photo Manager for GNOME Shotwell is a digital photo organizer designed for the GNOME desktop environment. It allows you to import photos from disk or camera, organize them in various ways, view them in full-window or fullscreen mode, and export them to share with others. They don't look the same thing to me... Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance. It does not see that DSC_5946.NEF is the same photo as DSC_5946.JPG and that it should only display one, the raw one (even if it actually uses the jpg for display). I click on a NEF file to see it in big and the display quality is terrible (it has no problems displaying the JPG). I plug in one of my cameras and it doesn't read it. Judging by Pix, I hope this replacement doesn't go ahead. ...
All the mentioned apps are already part of the openSUSE distribution if you wish to try them.
Best Regards, Maurizio Galli (MauG)
- -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iF4EAREIAAYFAlvSNLwACgkQja8UbcUWM1x+PAD/e1QbpknFJy63PYqVxVv+B7bn F4Owb72TEsdz2H7SYIIA/0oZTp0QxyGrjymfxQ293enOkkXOTqNAkxzPaixlmtCo =Exez -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Are you sure "mousepad" is the correct name? Because to me I think of a mouse pad as something to put beneath the mouse, usually made of some type of rubber.
https://software.opensuse.org/package/mousepad -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Are you sure "mousepad" is the correct name? Because to me I think of a mouse pad as something to put beneath the mouse, usually made of some type of rubber.
LOL yes it is correct: https://software.opensuse.org/package/mousepad
They don't look the same thing to me...
Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
They are not the same thing. I suggested Pix as a completely
different software but I'm ok to keep Shotwell as it still integrates
well in Xfce.
The version of Pix in Leap 42.3 is rather old 1.4.5 vs TW 1.8.2. Also
the pattern change if accepted will most likely only affect TW and maybe Leap
15.1.
Maurizio Galli (MauG)
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 5:25 AM Carlos E. R.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
On 25/10/2018 18.14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Dear All, It is my intention to submit the following changes to the Xfce Pattern:
- add Menulibre (it's already part of Whisker Menu commands by default but the package is missing)
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
Are you sure "mousepad" is the correct name? Because to me I think of a mouse pad as something to put beneath the mouse, usually made of some type of rubber.
- replace Evince with Xreader (part of X-Apps: fork of Evince with menu-bar instead of CSD)
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
pix - Image viewer and browser utility
pix lets you browse your hard disk, showing you thumbnails of image files. It also lets you view single files (including GIF animations), add comments to images, organise images in catalogs, print images, view slide shows, set your desktop background, and more.
shotwell - Photo Manager for GNOME
Shotwell is a digital photo organizer designed for the GNOME desktop environment. It allows you to import photos from disk or camera, organize them in various ways, view them in full-window or fullscreen mode, and export them to share with others.
They don't look the same thing to me...
Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
It does not see that DSC_5946.NEF is the same photo as DSC_5946.JPG and that it should only display one, the raw one (even if it actually uses the jpg for display). I click on a NEF file to see it in big and the display quality is terrible (it has no problems displaying the JPG).
I plug in one of my cameras and it doesn't read it.
Judging by Pix, I hope this replacement doesn't go ahead.
...
All the mentioned apps are already part of the openSUSE distribution if you wish to try them.
Best Regards, Maurizio Galli (MauG)
- -- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2
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On 26/10/2018 04.44, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Are you sure "mousepad" is the correct name? Because to me I think of a mouse pad as something to put beneath the mouse, usually made of some type of rubber.
LOL yes it is correct: https://software.opensuse.org/package/mousepad
:-)
They don't look the same thing to me...
Ok, I installed "pix" on my 42.3 and the application seems to me very poor and incomplete replacement for shotwell. It does not display the existing tags and comments of the photos, for instance.
They are not the same thing. I suggested Pix as a completely different software but I'm ok to keep Shotwell as it still integrates well in Xfce. The version of Pix in Leap 42.3 is rather old 1.4.5 vs TW 1.8.2. Also the pattern change if accepted will most likely only affect TW and maybe Leap 15.1.
I will try in TW under virtualbox. [...] Done. Version 1.8.2. Sorry, my opinion does not change: It does not display events. It does not display tags. It does not display comments. It does not zoom into NEF photos. It does not merge NEF and JPG photos of the same name. It does not see mp4 videos. This program is no replacement at all to shotwell. If shotwell is installed, do not replace it. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 42.3 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Am 26.10.18 um 13:06 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
This program is no replacement at all to shotwell. If shotwell is installed, do not replace it.
This whole discussion is about *XFCE PATTERNS* Noone will uninstall your shotwell and replace it with pix. Just new installations that just install the standard patterns will no longer have shotwell but pix instead. You are free to "zypper in shotwell" afterwards. I'm very much for lean, small default patterns which are suitable for normal-user consumption. Experts are expected to customize their systems after the default installation. IMVHO. -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Stefan,
Just to clarify, finally I did not replace shotwell in the pattern.
Maurizio Galli (MauG)
On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 8:39 PM Stefan Seyfried
Am 26.10.18 um 13:06 schrieb Carlos E. R.:
This program is no replacement at all to shotwell. If shotwell is installed, do not replace it.
This whole discussion is about *XFCE PATTERNS*
Noone will uninstall your shotwell and replace it with pix. Just new installations that just install the standard patterns will no longer have shotwell but pix instead.
You are free to "zypper in shotwell" afterwards.
I'm very much for lean, small default patterns which are suitable for normal-user consumption.
Experts are expected to customize their systems after the default installation.
IMVHO. -- Stefan Seyfried
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
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Am 14.11.18 um 13:43 schrieb Maurizio Galli:
Hi Stefan, Just to clarify, finally I did not replace shotwell in the pattern.
That's fine with me (even more as I'm very late to the discussion ;-), but I would have approved it. Because patterns are just defaults, not something that is set in stone after installation. Thanks for your efforts on improving Xfce for openSUSE! -- Stefan Seyfried "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/10/2018 18:14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
- replace Leafpad with Mousepad (Mousepad is the default text editor in all main Xfce systems)
Good idea. 👍 (Although I personally use Xed, the Xapps fork of Gedit.)
- replace Evince with Xreader (part of X-Apps: fork of Evince with menu-bar instead of CSD)
I already did this myself, to get rid of the weird dysfunctional GNOME 3 menu-bar-title-bar-toolbar thing. 👍
- replace File-roller with Engrampa (part of MATE: fork of file-roller with menu-bar instead of CSD)
I will try this.
- replace Totem with Parole (Parole is an Xfce app, thus more suitable to the be included)
I did this, too. 👍
The suggestions above are for the use of native Xfce and also related X-apps over Gnome apps which since the introduction of Client Side Decoration (CSD), they don't integrate well with the look and feel of Xfce, which does not use CSD system-wide. X-Apps were created by Linux Mint as forks of Gnome GTK 3 apps, targeting Xfce, MATE and Cinnamon.
Excellent idea. I strongly dislike "CSD" apps and find them not only harder to use, but lacking in important core functionality. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 25/10/2018 18:14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
I have looked at both Shotwell and Pix now -- I do not normally use either. May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer? Pix certainly seems to be more capable than Ristretto, yes. Shotwell may be more capable than that. As I said, I don't normally use either. But surely the key question is this: * favour Xfce apps where they exist, even if they are lighter-weight _or_ * favour best-of-breed apps even if they come from another desktop or do not integrate? I would certainly favour Xapps over GNOME apps, as Xapps have a standard UI with a title bar/toolbar/menu bar, whereas GNOME apps have the IMHO clumsy new CSD. However, I would favour Xfce apps over Xapps. My suggestion would be: [1] Xfce app if one is available [2] Failing that, an Xapp, as they are cross-desktop [3] Failing #1 *and* #2, then a Maté app [4] Failing #1 && #2 && #3 then any other Gtk app with a conventional UI. IMHO the goal should be to avoid important a ton of GNOME/Cinnamon/Maté dependencies, and to have apps with a fairly uniform UI and which interoperate well while remaining fairly lightweight. E.g. I have nothing against Mousepad but I happen to find Geany has some useful features for XML editing, which is my day job, and Xed has some for AsciiDoc, which I also sometimes use. All are interchangeable for me, whereas GNOME 3 Gedit does not have a conventional UI and does not fit in. I think the main GNOME 3 app I see every day now is the system update program. I do not like it at all: it has CSD, no way to sort by size/status/etc of updates, and its progress display is frankly incomprehensible. It's a good example of what I consider to be broken GNOME 3 app behaviour: "simplified" into uselessness. I would be *delighted* to see that replaced! -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 26/10/2018 13.48, Liam Proven wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
I have looked at both Shotwell and Pix now -- I do not normally use either.
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
Pix certainly seems to be more capable than Ristretto, yes. Shotwell may be more capable than that. As I said, I don't normally use either.
I'm very familiar with Shotwell, and it is not a photo viewer. It is comparable to digikam, but with less features. It downloads photos directly from cameras, using methods of its own, not needing its filesystem to be mounted. After downloading it offers to delete them on the camera. Common cameras only have a single file per photo, but more complex cameras will have a RAW photo (needs developing to be displayed) and sometimes accompanied with a camera produced (developed) JPEG. Shotwell can create its own developed copy or use the one from the camera, but will display only the RAW file. Knowing about RAW photos is a crucial feature on any photo management application at the shotwell level. Then the photo can be manipulated: rotate, change light or contrast is typical, also things like removing red eyes. Other features that are not still there could be denoising, lenses compensation, etc. As for displaying the photos, they are sorted by effective date into events. Tags can be added (then filter display the photos that have a certain tag), comments added. These fields can be stored as metadata or in a database somewhere; but not being able to display tags and comments (and create them) instantly dumps the app as useless.
But surely the key question is this:
* favour Xfce apps where they exist, even if they are lighter-weight
_or_
* favour best-of-breed apps even if they come from another desktop or do not integrate?
Replacing Shotwell with Pix will make photographers think that XFCE can not cope with photos properly. For the rest of the ideas, OK, I agree. What about Bluetooth? - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EARECAB0WIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCW9MPXgAKCRC1MxgcbY1H 1Wi/AKCQVjy+2+BkASPPftTCeHcIAyX29ACfenRiK9UWIcl0mnAj9sUmR3hRJI4= =o5yq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 26/10/2018 14:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
I'm very familiar with Shotwell, and it is not a photo viewer. It is comparable to digikam, but with less features.
I think you are sort of making my point for me, although you don't realise it. I don't own a digital camera. I have not owned one for years. About a decade. I don't use a film camera either. I just use my phone.
Replacing Shotwell with Pix will make photographers think that XFCE can not cope with photos properly.
But most users are not photographers. I submit that these days, most people just use their phones, and all they need is maybe cropping and rotation, and that's it. Xfce is a lightweight desktop, often recommended for older/low-spec computers. Xfce has an image viewer. I don't think we need either a GNOME image viewer or an Xapps one. And I don't think we need a photographer's photo-management tool by default. I am not saying Ristretto is as good as Pix, or that either can replace Shotwell. I'm saying that Xfce includes an image viewer app and isn't that enough?
What about Bluetooth?
Er. Um. What *about* Bluetooth? - -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEeNZxWlZYyNg7I0pvkm4MJhv0VBYFAlvTJngACgkQkm4MJhv0 VBad7hAApS8HuORUBWAtQEGDCePq6rk03d5UO32Wbdjhl9AlZK7ZczDBddPxTANQ yZhsuZK8FleAwYC0o4IX5vVNlRmEUw/MbaV3RsO6xfTiGH5GCwYMOb4sQ/Fbsp/o Fi2ztJMDfZgn5cRFDuBwNt0eTIBhYFJDXmzSdv+jLEj1MuofkpqeRc9AOqxypvyp sMY9rTz7HPzC8HxGM4iDhx1yTBmV0/UpFhv6FMmIgVcm0aRoQY7fo1hiAvnb/G2K i2Lqw15UyFY9eeQZQzTksutQkIQw+a8TlZjNTqi/9+rkIMur8Jis0kzSeu/lWztW TdhdP5+4zXxLVuWaeHPi8zK5dveaXaDyjlrSM4eE0ikywx0f/PQCRu3YQgFLoYGL M9A7ZDjS+mZjgafzL9buNLd+DrEdGteB+88nIHovgdsoZSTzXwSDE1si70o1OGJl EkpoVDleg8FYMyS+iuD7S6/E5GWUprGeRvYpX44rDFGK0d06y9sfT+Qts0klxRdQ 4yf3GkWYEo5mZK2edKFqDS5FfhGlTu1zXyu5QoFgiIIjY05VTj5CZTHfJUZUwxwg pP9Z+7tVTOjQ4BCE5LZOiZFsOVWq5btiBKqONV9KqlO+0FVJxfZa8qi9UKBAiQ97 +dY9b6jCU5Vh5u5n8CPb5pUhN8Y7YrACr/eV9uhtRIcm/IaGSHo= =YSan -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 26/10/2018 16.36, Liam Proven wrote:
On 26/10/2018 14:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
I'm very familiar with Shotwell, and it is not a photo viewer. It is comparable to digikam, but with less features.
I think you are sort of making my point for me, although you don't realise it.
I don't own a digital camera. I have not owned one for years. About a decade. I don't use a film camera either.
I just use my phone.
Pix was unable to connect to my phone.
Replacing Shotwell with Pix will make photographers think that XFCE can not cope with photos properly.
But most users are not photographers. I submit that these days, most people just use their phones, and all they need is maybe cropping and rotation, and that's it.
And not adding comments to the photos, or classify them? with tags? The preferences menu has a setting to display both, but they don't display. I have restarted Pix after the change, and now it is taking a very long time to come up :-?
top - 18:19:55 up 4 days, 21:28, 3 users, load average: 4.20, 4.63, 2.76 Tasks: 316 total, 4 running, 312 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 12.8 us, 11.9 sy, 0.0 ni, 41.2 id, 28.4 wa, 0.0 hi, 5.7 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 3942200 total, 120612 free, 3450948 used, 370640 buff/cache KiB Swap: 12582908 total, 3912060 free, 8670848 used. 179504 avail Mem
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR SWAP S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 30788 cer 20 0 10.109g 2.446g 14416 5.865g D 32.05 65.07 11:50.06 pix 2614 cer 20 0 460432 37340 19316 33524 S 7.122 0.947 68:35.78 X
As you can see, PIX has consumed by now 5.8 GB of Swap. Low end computers, you said? Ok, it finished now, and each photo displays the date it was taken (I guess it was scanning the tree). But not the comments or the tags.
Xfce is a lightweight desktop, often recommended for older/low-spec computers.
That doesn't mean that it has to be used on low-spec computers only.
Xfce has an image viewer. I don't think we need either a GNOME image viewer or an Xapps one. And I don't think we need a photographer's photo-management tool by default.
I am not saying Ristretto is as good as Pix, or that either can replace Shotwell. I'm saying that Xfce includes an image viewer app and isn't that enough?
As long as you say that XFCE will include an image viewer called Pix, I'm fine. As long as you don't try or say to replace Shotwell with Pix :-)
What about Bluetooth?
Er. Um. What *about* Bluetooth?
Well, what is the current status to connect a bluetooth headphone using XFCE GUI tools? Because on 42.3 I had to use the CLI, the GUI toolset used previously inherited from Gnome no longer worked on XFCE, something changed on the Gnome camp (intentionally, some said, to block XFCE out). I have not tried yet on 15.0; hopefully this night. I activated something called "blueman applet", and from that point I get asked at login twice for the root password. I have photos of the dialogs: Configuring networking requires privileges (with BT logo) Setting Rfkill state requires privileges. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas))
RE: Bluetooth
My choice would be split between Blueman and Bluenberry. I like both
and I would go with Blueberry because it's simpler.
If disagree pls speak up.
Maurizio Galli (MauG)
On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 12:25 AM Carlos E. R.
On 26/10/2018 16.36, Liam Proven wrote:
On 26/10/2018 14:58, Carlos E. R. wrote:
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
I'm very familiar with Shotwell, and it is not a photo viewer. It is comparable to digikam, but with less features.
I think you are sort of making my point for me, although you don't realise it.
I don't own a digital camera. I have not owned one for years. About a decade. I don't use a film camera either.
I just use my phone.
Pix was unable to connect to my phone.
Replacing Shotwell with Pix will make photographers think that XFCE can not cope with photos properly.
But most users are not photographers. I submit that these days, most people just use their phones, and all they need is maybe cropping and rotation, and that's it.
And not adding comments to the photos, or classify them? with tags?
The preferences menu has a setting to display both, but they don't display. I have restarted Pix after the change, and now it is taking a very long time to come up :-?
top - 18:19:55 up 4 days, 21:28, 3 users, load average: 4.20, 4.63, 2.76 Tasks: 316 total, 4 running, 312 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie %Cpu(s): 12.8 us, 11.9 sy, 0.0 ni, 41.2 id, 28.4 wa, 0.0 hi, 5.7 si, 0.0 st KiB Mem : 3942200 total, 120612 free, 3450948 used, 370640 buff/cache KiB Swap: 12582908 total, 3912060 free, 8670848 used. 179504 avail Mem
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR SWAP S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND 30788 cer 20 0 10.109g 2.446g 14416 5.865g D 32.05 65.07 11:50.06 pix 2614 cer 20 0 460432 37340 19316 33524 S 7.122 0.947 68:35.78 X
As you can see, PIX has consumed by now 5.8 GB of Swap. Low end computers, you said?
Ok, it finished now, and each photo displays the date it was taken (I guess it was scanning the tree). But not the comments or the tags.
Xfce is a lightweight desktop, often recommended for older/low-spec computers.
That doesn't mean that it has to be used on low-spec computers only.
Xfce has an image viewer. I don't think we need either a GNOME image viewer or an Xapps one. And I don't think we need a photographer's photo-management tool by default.
I am not saying Ristretto is as good as Pix, or that either can replace Shotwell. I'm saying that Xfce includes an image viewer app and isn't that enough?
As long as you say that XFCE will include an image viewer called Pix, I'm fine. As long as you don't try or say to replace Shotwell with Pix :-)
What about Bluetooth?
Er. Um. What *about* Bluetooth?
Well, what is the current status to connect a bluetooth headphone using XFCE GUI tools? Because on 42.3 I had to use the CLI, the GUI toolset used previously inherited from Gnome no longer worked on XFCE, something changed on the Gnome camp (intentionally, some said, to block XFCE out).
I have not tried yet on 15.0; hopefully this night.
I activated something called "blueman applet", and from that point I get asked at login twice for the root password. I have photos of the dialogs:
Configuring networking requires privileges (with BT logo) Setting Rfkill state requires privileges.
-- Cheers / Saludos,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 15.0 (Legolas))
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On 26/10/2018 18:25, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Pix was unable to connect to my phone.
Is that not the job of the OS, rather than the picture-viewer app?
And not adding comments to the photos, or classify them? with tags?
Well, no, TBH. That's nothing I _ever_ do or have done, personally.
As you can see, PIX has consumed by now 5.8 GB of Swap. Low end computers, you said?
Isn't any image viewer/editor going to eat lots of memory if you load lots of pictures?
That doesn't mean that it has to be used on low-spec computers only.
I didn't say it was.
As long as you say that XFCE will include an image viewer called Pix, I'm fine. As long as you don't try or say to replace Shotwell with Pix :-)
I don't hugely care _what_ image viewer it contains. If it doesn't do what I want, I will change it anyway. But I think what you are calling for is a lot more than a _viewer_. I think you want a rich, nearly pro-level, photo editing tool.
Well, what is the current status to connect a bluetooth headphone using XFCE GUI tools?
I don't know. I have never owned Bluetooth headphones in my life. I have a Bluetooth mouse, an Apple Magic Mouse mk 1. I don't use it much and have never tried it with openSUSE. I had serious difficulty getting it working with Ubuntu, though.
Because on 42.3 I had to use the CLI, the GUI toolset used previously inherited from Gnome no longer worked on XFCE, something changed on the Gnome camp (intentionally, some said, to block XFCE out).
I have barely used Bluetooth at all, but so far, I'd say the only OS it works vaguely well with is macOS. It's a pain on both Windows and Ubuntu. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
Nothing wrong with it. It’s currently in the Pattern and I will not
touch it. Ristretto is an image viewer whereas Pix and Shotwell are
for photo management.
Personally I would favor native Xfce apps when available and stick to
the Xfce philosophy, unless the apps have serious issues. X-Apps and
Mate apps would be to fill the gaps imo.
On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 7:48 PM Liam Proven
On 25/10/2018 18:14, Maurizio Galli wrote:
- replace Shotwell with Pix (part of X-Apps: fork of gThumb and has more features than Shotwell for photo management)
I have looked at both Shotwell and Pix now -- I do not normally use either.
May I ask, what is wrong with Ristretto, which seems to be the Xfce desktop's standard image viewer?
Pix certainly seems to be more capable than Ristretto, yes. Shotwell may be more capable than that. As I said, I don't normally use either.
But surely the key question is this:
* favour Xfce apps where they exist, even if they are lighter-weight
_or_
* favour best-of-breed apps even if they come from another desktop or do not integrate?
I would certainly favour Xapps over GNOME apps, as Xapps have a standard UI with a title bar/toolbar/menu bar, whereas GNOME apps have the IMHO clumsy new CSD.
However, I would favour Xfce apps over Xapps.
My suggestion would be: [1] Xfce app if one is available [2] Failing that, an Xapp, as they are cross-desktop [3] Failing #1 *and* #2, then a Maté app [4] Failing #1 && #2 && #3 then any other Gtk app with a conventional UI.
IMHO the goal should be to avoid important a ton of GNOME/Cinnamon/Maté dependencies, and to have apps with a fairly uniform UI and which interoperate well while remaining fairly lightweight.
E.g. I have nothing against Mousepad but I happen to find Geany has some useful features for XML editing, which is my day job, and Xed has some for AsciiDoc, which I also sometimes use. All are interchangeable for me, whereas GNOME 3 Gedit does not have a conventional UI and does not fit in.
I think the main GNOME 3 app I see every day now is the system update program. I do not like it at all: it has CSD, no way to sort by size/status/etc of updates, and its progress display is frankly incomprehensible. It's a good example of what I consider to be broken GNOME 3 app behaviour: "simplified" into uselessness. I would be *delighted* to see that replaced!
-- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084
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On 10/26/18 4:48 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
E.g. I have nothing against Mousepad but I happen to find Geany has some useful features for XML editing, which is my day job,
Yes, Geany is a good replacement, IMHO. I have used it in the (long) past on a Debian (or, was that Ubuntu?) derivative and quite liked it. I do *not* suggest adding Kate or kWrite to the Xfce patterns, just mentioned I prefer them. I find kWrite even more useful than Geany, for my needs, but -- as I said above -- Geany is a very good suggestion. But, for me, kWrite & Kate are superb for some of the work I want them for: Extremely useful for YaST Development, openSUSE work, and great for HTML5 creation and editing. As for adding extra weight to an older machine, I have them in Xfce on a few old machines, not enough extra weight to even notice. -- -Gerry Makaro openSUSE Member openSUSE Forum Moderator openSUSE Contributor aka Fraser_Bell on the Forums, OBS, IRC, and mail at openSUSE.org Fraser-Bell on Github -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 27.10.18 um 02:00 schrieb Fraser_Bell:
On 10/26/18 4:48 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
E.g. I have nothing against Mousepad but I happen to find Geany has some useful features for XML editing, which is my day job,
Yes, Geany is a good replacement, IMHO. I have used it in the (long) past on a Debian (or, was that Ubuntu?) derivative and quite liked it.
+1 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Yes, Geany is a good replacement, IMHO. I have used it in the (long) past on a Debian (or, was that Ubuntu?) derivative and quite liked it.
+1
Geany is good but it's not a just text editor. It is an IDE and a bit
too advanced and complex for the average Joe.
On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 9:22 PM Karl Sinn
Am 27.10.18 um 02:00 schrieb Fraser_Bell:
On 10/26/18 4:48 AM, Liam Proven wrote:
E.g. I have nothing against Mousepad but I happen to find Geany has some useful features for XML editing, which is my day job,
Yes, Geany is a good replacement, IMHO. I have used it in the (long) past on a Debian (or, was that Ubuntu?) derivative and quite liked it.
+1
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 28.10.18 um 18:34 schrieb Maurizio Galli:
Yes, Geany is a good replacement, IMHO. I have used it in the (long) past on a Debian (or, was that Ubuntu?) derivative and quite liked it. +1 Geany is good but it's not a just text editor. It is an IDE and a bit too advanced and complex for the average Joe.
yes, it's pretty powerful, but it's definitely not to complex to use. As an average user you open your file, edit it and save it just as easy as with any editor. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 28/10/2018 18:34, Maurizio Galli wrote:
Geany is good but it's not a just text editor. It is an IDE and a bit too advanced and complex for the average Joe.
Agreed. Although it is very minimal as IDEs go. I have tried tools such as Eclipse very briefly and do not understand how they work at all. Geany is basically a multi-file editor which can automatically run a script through an interpreter for me if I so desire. -- Liam Proven - Technical Writer, SUSE Linux s.r.o. Corso II, Křižíkova 148/34, 186-00 Praha 8 - Karlín, Czechia Email: lproven@suse.com - Office telephone: +420 284 241 084 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Fraser_Bell -
Karl Sinn -
Liam Proven -
Maurizio Galli -
Simon Lees -
simonizor -
Stefan Seyfried