Dňa 6.5.2010 9:49, Stephan Kulow wrote / napísal(a):

Am Mittwoch 05 Mai 2010 schrieb Lenz Grimmer:

...

Hi,

granted, it's not a very sophisticated or scientificly relevant observation, but I thought I'd share this with you, since the live CDs are likely the first thing a new user is going to try out before he decides which Linux distribution or desktop environment he'll choose.

I measured the times it takes the current 11.3 M6 live systems to boot up in both VirtualBox (virtualbox-ose-3.1.4-106.2.i586) and qemu-kvm (kvm-0.11.0-4.5.2.i586) on my Thinkpad T61 (Intel Core2 Duo T8300@2.40GHz, 4GB RAM, running openSUSE 11.2, 32bit). I used the ISO images directly, no CD-ROM drive is involved here.

I used a stop watch to measure the time from the point at which GRUB loads the kernel until the desktop is usable and fully loaded. Both virtual machines were configured to use 1GB of RAM. Out of curiosity, I also included the latest Ubuntu 10.04 release for comparison. Can anybody repeat my observation that the GNOME live-CD is much slower than the KDE one? I would have actually expected it the other way around. What also surprised me was the difference between VirtualBox and KVM.

Product Time (qemu-kvm) Time (virtualbox) openSUSE-GNOME 11.3M6 0:02:17 0:03:45 openSUSE-KDE 11.3M6 0:01:40 0:02:50 kubuntu 10.04 (KDE) 0:01:35 0:01:59 ubuntu 10.04 (GNOME) 0:01:17 0:01:36

Anyway, I don't know if this is useful or if anybody actually cares about this aspect. From a "first impression" perspective, anything above 2:30 minutes feels like a very long time, especially if there is no visual feedback about what's going on - the GNOME bootup spends a lot of time in displaying a black screen with a busy cursor...

You haven't booted a real live cd yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgukjvw08xk (it's real, you can download and test it and I implemented some of the techniques used in clicfs).

Actually I do care for the boot time of the live cd, but as I'm the only one caring for anything about the live cd, it only brings very little gain. But the kubuntu live cds disable tons of services we do not disable, e.g. we're still starting akondi ;(

Greetings, Stephan

Long boot time in openSUSE it´s not surprising for me. I mentioned a similar experience (but on real hardware, no in virtual machine) in feature #308762: Remove Hal by default on opensuse 11.3. So could you disable some of services also? Do you think, that common users really need enabled something like avahi-daemon, cifs, nfs, postfix, rpcbind, sshd, etc? Advanced users can enable it additionaly, but me as a common desktop user i don´t really need this services. On my laptop, Ubuntu 10.04 starts only 8 services by default. -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Il giovedì 06 maggio 2010, Stephan Kulow scrisse:

Am Donnerstag 06 Mai 2010 schrieb Rastislav Krupanský:

...

Long boot time in openSUSE it´s not surprising for me. I mentioned a similar experience (but on real hardware, no in virtual machine) in feature #308762: Remove Hal by default on opensuse 11.3. So could you disable some of services also? Do you think, that common users really need enabled something like avahi-daemon, cifs, nfs, postfix, rpcbind, sshd, etc? Advanced users can enable it additionaly, but me as a common desktop user i don´t really need this services. On my laptop, Ubuntu 10.04 starts only 8 services by default.

Ok, but we see in the above numbers that the difference between KDE and GNOME is bigger than those between openSUSE and ubuntu. So I would think that the gain by disabling sshd (which is disabled on live cds btw) is smaller than by improving the desktops. What about audit ? On a live media does not seem very useful, IMHO.

I did a quick test: VBOX-3.1.6 on 11.2 32bit kde-livecd-build-0589 Old athlon 2800XP 1GB RAM (550MB for VBOX). From grub to a fully loaded kde desktop 5 (five) minutes :( After this nothing works. Maybe I need to wait ten minutes to see some reactions to right click on desktop :) killed after one or two minutes.. Things become worst at each release :(

But feel free to build an adopted live cd and do some measurements.

Is there a way to do a sort of remastering without rebuilding the live cd from zero ? Bye. -- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Freitag 07 Mai 2010 schrieb Lenz Grimmer:

Hi,

On 05/06/2010 10:27 PM, Daniele wrote:

...

I did a quick test: VBOX-3.1.6 on 11.2 32bit kde-livecd-build-0589 Old athlon 2800XP 1GB RAM (550MB for VBOX). From grub to a fully loaded kde desktop 5 (five) minutes :( After this nothing works. Maybe I need to wait ten minutes to see some reactions to right click on desktop :) killed after one or two minutes.. Things become worst at each release :(

550MB is too little for a live system, it seems. I reported something similar already (providing 512MB):

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=602558

...

Is there a way to do a sort of remastering without rebuilding the live cd from zero ?

I was thinking of SuSE Studio, but they currently don't provide an option to create images from Factory... So you may have to tinker with Kiwi directly.

you should be able to call kiwi with the configs provided in kiwi-config- openSUSE, but I didn't try it for some time. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rastislav Krupanský ha scritto:

...

-----Original Message----- From: Rastislav Krupanský [mailto:rastislav.krupansky@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 9:53 PM To: Lenz Grimmer Cc: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] 11.3 M6 live CDs - bootup time comparison

Dňa 5.5.2010 19:37, Lenz Grimmer wrote / napísal(a):

...

Hi,

granted, it's not a very sophisticated or scientificly relevant observation, but I thought I'd share this with you, since the live CDs are likely the first thing a new user is going to try out before he decides which Linux distribution or desktop environment he'll choose.

I measured the times it takes the current 11.3 M6 live systems to boot up in both VirtualBox (virtualbox-ose-3.1.4-106.2.i586) and qemu-kvm (kvm-0.11.0-4.5.2.i586) on my Thinkpad T61 (Intel Core2 Duo T8300@2.40GHz, 4GB RAM, running openSUSE 11.2, 32bit). I used the ISO images directly, no CD-ROM drive is involved here.

I used a stop watch to measure the time from the point at which GRUB loads the kernel until the desktop is usable and fully loaded. Both virtual machines were configured to use 1GB of RAM. Out of curiosity, I also included the latest Ubuntu 10.04 release for comparison. Can anybody repeat my observation that the GNOME live-CD is much slower than the KDE one? I would have actually expected it the other way around. What also surprised me was the difference between VirtualBox and KVM.

Product Time (qemu-kvm) Time (virtualbox) openSUSE-GNOME 11.3M6 0:02:17 0:03:45 openSUSE-KDE 11.3M6 0:01:40 0:02:50 kubuntu 10.04 (KDE) 0:01:35 0:01:59 ubuntu 10.04 (GNOME) 0:01:17 0:01:36

Anyway, I don't know if this is useful or if anybody actually cares about this aspect. From a "first impression" perspective, anything above 2:30 minutes feels like a very long time, especially if there is no visual feedback about what's going on - the GNOME bootup spends a lot of time in displaying a black screen with a busy cursor...

Bye, LenZ

Hi.

I did comparison in VMware on my wife´s hardware. Intel Core2 duo E7500 - 2,93Ghz, 4GB RAM, runnig Microsoft Windows XP 32bit with Service Pack 3. The ISO images were used directly, virtual machine had 1GB RAM.

ubuntu 10.04 - 00:00:57 (i couldn´t believe it, but it´s true) openSUSE-GNOME 11.3M6 - 00:02:21 openSUSE-KDE 11.3M6 - 00:01:39

I can confirm in openSUSE GNOME´s case a lot of time in displaying a black screen with a busy cursor. In openSUSE KDE´s case the time would be shorter (around 00:01:19), but still appears bnc# 582375 - An error occured during the startup of the Akonadi server, which stucks desktop for a while (around 20 seconds).

Tested factory build 0646 yesterday and no progress for Gnome. Still Gnome bootup spends a lot of time in displaying with black screen and busy cursor. And on istalled system also. :-(

It is Gnome or gconfd-2 which spends so lot of time? Sad to hear it as Gnome user :-( Prefer wait three more months over the schedule date than get a not fully working system. -- Marco Calistri <amdturion> That student is taught the best who is told the least. -- R. L. Moore -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 07:48, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le mercredi 02 juin 2010, à 14:50 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

...

Tested factory build 0646 yesterday and no progress for Gnome. Still Gnome bootup spends a lot of time in displaying with black screen and busy cursor. And on istalled system also. :-(

If it's around 10s and you're using compiz, can you try without compiz? When we investigated this last week, we found out that the main issue was compiz not registering to gnome-session, which was blocking everything until after a 10s timeout.

Vincent

I also submitted a patch that was given to me to G:F to help with the panel and load time. I'm not sure if its in Factory yet. Stephen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 03 juin 2010, à 10:05 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

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-----Original Message----- From: Stephen Shaw [mailto:sshaw@decriptor.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:42 PM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] 11.3 M6 live CDs - bootup time comparison

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 07:48, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Le mercredi 02 juin 2010, à 14:50 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

...

Tested factory build 0646 yesterday and no progress for Gnome. Still Gnome bootup spends a lot of time in displaying with black screen and busy cursor. And on istalled system also. :-(

If it's around 10s and you're using compiz, can you try without compiz? When we investigated this last week, we found out that the main issue was compiz not registering to gnome-session, which was blocking everything until after a 10s timeout.

Vincent

I also submitted a patch that was given to me to G:F to help with the panel and load time. I'm not sure if its in Factory yet.

Stephen

Well, i´ll wait on next factory build.

Still, you didn't answer: are you using compiz or not? Stephen's patch probably makes a difference, but not something like 10 seconds... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 03 juin 2010, à 11:50 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

...

-----Original Message----- From: Vincent Untz [mailto:vuntz@opensuse.org]

Still, you didn't answer: are you using compiz or not? Stephen's patch probably makes a difference, but not something like 10 seconds...

Sorry. No, i´m not using Compiz.

Hrm, okay. I'd like to ask anybody who can reproduce this to do the following: 1) install bootchart (zypper in bootchart). 2) edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and add: initcall_debug printk.time=y quiet init=/sbin/bootchartd to the kernel line 3) reboot and log in. 4) call pybootchartgui. This should create a bootchart.png file. 5) make your bootchart.png available somewhere on the web and give us the link. Thanks, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dňa 3.6.2010 12:02, Vincent Untz napísal(a):

Le jeudi 03 juin 2010, à 11:50 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

...

...

-----Original Message----- From: Vincent Untz [mailto:vuntz@opensuse.org]

Still, you didn't answer: are you using compiz or not? Stephen's patch probably makes a difference, but not something like 10 seconds...

Sorry. No, i´m not using Compiz.

Hrm, okay. I'd like to ask anybody who can reproduce this to do the following:

1) install bootchart (zypper in bootchart). 2) edit /boot/grub/menu.lst and add: initcall_debug printk.time=y quiet init=/sbin/bootchartd to the kernel line 3) reboot and log in. 4) call pybootchartgui. This should create a bootchart.png file. 5) make your bootchart.png available somewhere on the web and give us the link.

Thanks,

Vincent

Hope this is it what you need. http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8521/bootchart.png -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 03 juin 2010, à 22:11 +0200, Vincent Untz a écrit :

Le jeudi 03 juin 2010, à 21:13 +0200, Rastislav Krupanský a écrit :

...

Hope this is it what you need.

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8521/bootchart.png

Nice. So we have 8 seconds blocking on nautilus. The patch from Stephen could help here. Let's see when you get the new nautilus.

So I actually have the same thing now, but with the new nautilus -- something I didn't have before Stephen's patch. Stephen: is nautilus-boot-order.patch really what we want? It doesn't feel like an improvement to me :/ Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le samedi 19 juin 2010, à 09:42 +0530, Atri Bhattacharya a écrit :

So is there any development on this? I get a similar delay with a black screen also with RC1. I have bootchart png here

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1023/bootcharto.png

It would be nice to improve upon this by RC2.

So this is GDM + GNOME. Are you using autologin? Or is the delay before you see the login screen? There's a really long delay between gnome-settings-daemon and metacity for what seems to be the gdm user. It's the first time I see such a delay there :/ Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org