On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Søndag den 9. oktober 2011 06:31:13 skrev Steven Sroka:

...

I was just reading over some threads on this list and noticed a few things here and there about KPackageKit. I understand that it was included by default in 11.4 because the Update Applet was unmaintained, but isn't Yast2 Installer perfectly able to do updates? Was KPackageKit needed just because Yast doesn't remind users about updates?

This is the only reason I can think of to use KPackageKit. Yast2 Installer is so much more advanced (which is good for our target userbase) and it is tightly integrated into openSUSE since it's a SUSE product!

KPK would surely not be included in the default installation without the updater applet/update notifications.

But actually some people seem to use KPK as the primary package management, because it's "simpler" and more integrated in KDE than YaST. (I'm not one of them).

I use apper for updates and YaST2 for software installation (mostly out of habit, though). That seems to work well. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 9 October 2011 10:19, todd rme wrote: On Sun, Oct 9, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Rajko M. wrote:

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On Saturday, October 08, 2011 11:31:13 PM Steven Sroka wrote:

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Hey all,

I was just reading over some threads on this list and noticed a few things here and there about KPackageKit. I understand that it was included by default in 11.4 because the Update Applet was unmaintained, but isn't Yast2 Installer perfectly able to do updates? Was KPackageKit needed just because Yast doesn't remind users about updates?

Which cron job can do perfectly without buggy KPackageKit (KPK).

My complains from the time I used it: 1) KPK can't finish transactions, or not in time comparable to zypper or YaST. As background process, that should not slow down computer without notifying that is running, it can be understandable that makes it slower, but hanging forever and blocking package management is annoying. 2) It is sometimes stuck completely in endless repetition of updates that are already done. 3) It wakes up on its own, much more often then it is set, and blocks zypper or yast. I can tolerate clash with KPK once a day, but not 4-5 times a day. Not reading its own configuration makes it uncontrollable annoyance. 4) It is set to make all updates, not only security. This is convenient for lazy boys, but it is stupid as in case of problems pile of software that one has to check is bigger.

I had these problems before, but since I switched to apper all of them seem to have disappeared.

I completely forgot about Apper :( In case anyone is interested Apper is supposed to be the newly reworked version of KPK: http://dantti.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/apper-kpackagekit-reworked-part-i/ http://dantti.wordpress.com/2011/08/26/apper-kpackagekit-reworked-part-ii-th...

-Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011, Tim Edwards wrote:

IMHO we're a bit stuck for a decent updater at the moment. Some of us (me included) just drop a script in cron.daily to run zypper up, but this is no good for most users. Neither is having to remember to manually open up YAST->Online Update every day a good solution for anyone.

gpk-update-icon has been working pretty okay in my tests. (I acknowledge it's name starts with a g and not a k, but apart from that, might that be workable for you, bettern than zypper up from cron?) Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer || SUSE || Director Product Management -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 10 Oct 2011 11:01:20 Tim Edwards wrote:

Any chance that this will make it into 12.1?

Yes, Apper is making it into 12.1 and I'm working with the author to make sure it is fit for purpose. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 31 Oct 2011 17:57:24 Steven Sroka wrote:

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On 31 October 2011 16:10, Will Stephenson wrote: On Monday 10 Oct 2011 11:01:20 Tim Edwards wrote:

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Any chance that this will make it into 12.1?

Yes, Apper is making it into 12.1 and I'm working with the author to make sure it is fit for purpose.

Will it be the default update app?

Yes, we've tossed out KPackageKit. Will -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 14:10:14 Tim Edwards wrote:

Great, I'm re-installing by testing install with RC1. Is it possible to test Apper, I mean is the 12.1 update repo available in the right state?

http://download.opensuse.org/update/12.1/ has the usual set of test updates, minus the eula-required update for some reason. To repeat the test updates, zypper in --force the update-test packages to the version shipped with 12.1rc1, don't try to remove the patch or the package entirely. WIll -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Tirsdag den 1. november 2011 16:35:42 skrev Tim Edwards:

Am 01.11.2011 16:25, schrieb Will Stephenson:

...

On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 14:10:14 Tim Edwards wrote:

...

Great, I'm re-installing by testing install with RC1. Is it possible to test Apper, I mean is the 12.1 update repo available in the right state?

http://download.opensuse.org/update/12.1/ has the usual set of test updates, minus the eula-required update for some reason. To repeat the test updates, zypper in --force the update-test packages to the version shipped with 12.1rc1, don't try to remove the patch or the package entirely.

WIll

I have a fresh install of RC1 with no updates done so far. So I assume I can just add

http://download.opensuse.org/update/12.1/ and start Apper?

Please also test clicking on local RPMs in Dolphin and in Firefox ("Open file with..."). If I had a cent for everytime someone complained about single RPM installation failing with KPackageKit on 11.4, I'd buy Attachmate ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 18:18:32 Graham Anderson wrote:

On Tuesday 01 Nov 2011 17:01:29 Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Please also test clicking on local RPMs in Dolphin and in Firefox ("Open file with...").

Timely post...

Tried to install google-chrome-stable-current_x86_64.rpm from dolphin:

Apper segfaults after the first dialogue evaluating the package as upgrade/new install, submitted as https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=285495

Well, that's annoying but it's better not to be in the dark. I foresee a busy Tuesday evening in my near future.

Application: Apper (apper-sentinel), signal: Segmentation fault [KCrash Handler] #6 0x00007fe4c3e90904 in QAbstractButton::isChecked() const () from /usr/lib64/libQtGui.so.4 #7 0x00007fe4c4ac3f75 in Requirements::~Requirements (this=0x8a9d60, __in_chrg=<optimized out>) at /usr/src/debug/apper-0.7.0/libapper/Requirements.cpp:153 #8 0x00007fe4c4ac3fe9 in Requirements::~Requirements (this=0x8a9d60, __in_chrg=<optimized out>) at /usr/src/debug/apper-0.7.0/libapper/Requirements.cpp:157 #9 0x00007fe4c5499fd8 in QObject::event(QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #10 0x00007fe4c3b2dc7b in QWidget::event(QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtGui.so.4 #11 0x00007fe4c3addbe4 in QApplicationPrivate::notify_helper(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtGui.so.4 #12 0x00007fe4c3ae2a71 in QApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtGui.so.4 #13 0x00007fe4c6658e36 in KApplication::notify(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libkdeui.so.5 #14 0x00007fe4c548367c in QCoreApplication::notifyInternal(QObject*, QEvent*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #15 0x00007fe4c5486a58 in QCoreApplicationPrivate::sendPostedEvents(QObject*, int, QThreadData*) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #16 0x00007fe4c54adee3 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #17 0x00007fe4bf28358d in g_main_context_dispatch () from /usr/lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0 #18 0x00007fe4bf283d88 in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0 #19 0x00007fe4bf283f59 in g_main_context_iteration () from /usr/lib64/libglib-2.0.so.0 #20 0x00007fe4c54ae33f in QEventDispatcherGlib::processEvents(QFlagsQEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #21 0x00007fe4c3b80eae in ?? () from /usr/lib64/libQtGui.so.4 #22 0x00007fe4c5482882 in QEventLoop::processEvents(QFlagsQEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #23 0x00007fe4c5482a7f in QEventLoop::exec(QFlagsQEventLoop::ProcessEventsFlag) () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #24 0x00007fe4c5486c47 in QCoreApplication::exec() () from /usr/lib64/libQtCore.so.4 #25 0x000000000041035d in main (argc=1, argv=0x7fffa2f09668) at /usr/src/debug/apper-0.7.0/Sentinel/main.cpp:54 -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 01.11.2011 19:54, schrieb Freigeist:

Am 01.11.2011 17:01, schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Tirsdag den 1. november 2011 16:35:42 skrev Tim Edwards:

...

Am 01.11.2011 16:25, schrieb Will Stephenson: I have a fresh install of RC1 with no updates done so far. So I assume I can just add

http://download.opensuse.org/update/12.1/ and start Apper? Please also test clicking on local RPMs in Dolphin and in Firefox ("Open file with...").

If I had a cent for everytime someone complained about single RPM installation failing with KPackageKit on 11.4, I'd buy Attachmate ;-) Thanks for the hint. I will test it. I've just tested it by double-clicking some RPMs from Dolphin and having it install. It does the job, the only bug I could reproduce was a 'sorry' dialog box from Dolphin pops up saying "could not launch '/usr/bin/apper'. This pops up sometimes when you click 'Continue' and always when you click 'Cancel' on the Packagekit/apper 'Install Packages Files' dialog.

Tim 2) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Am 02.11.2011 23:49, schrieb Tim Edwards:

Am 01.11.2011 19:54, schrieb Freigeist:

...

Am 01.11.2011 17:01, schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Tirsdag den 1. november 2011 16:35:42 skrev Tim Edwards:

...

Am 01.11.2011 16:25, schrieb Will Stephenson: I have a fresh install of RC1 with no updates done so far. So I assume I can just add

http://download.opensuse.org/update/12.1/ and start Apper? Please also test clicking on local RPMs in Dolphin and in Firefox ("Open file with...").

If I had a cent for everytime someone complained about single RPM installation failing with KPackageKit on 11.4, I'd buy Attachmate ;-) Thanks for the hint. I will test it. I've just tested it by double-clicking some RPMs from Dolphin and having it install. It does the job, the only bug I could reproduce was a 'sorry' dialog box from Dolphin pops up saying "could not launch '/usr/bin/apper'. This pops up sometimes when you click 'Continue' and always when you click 'Cancel' on the Packagekit/apper 'Install Packages Files' dialog.

Tim

I have tested it by clicking rpms on my HD from within dolphin and I get "KDEinit could not lauch '/usr/bin/apper'", too. Additionally when I click 'continue' in the 'Install Packages files' dialog apper crashes. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=728144 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2011-11-01 at 17:08 +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

BTW I found out first hand a few days ago why we need a proper updater on the desktop:

No, what you found is why you should not do automated updates, and why you should have backups. :-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6wVuEACgkQtTMYHG2NR9V13ACeKukd2aR1tVy8xVboNR+NOuJC cFAAmgNJpbAS1fEWT+vupJ3h4KyBWW79 =0wlt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2011-11-02 at 14:39 +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

On Tuesday, November 01, 2011 9:30 PM, "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

...

On Tuesday, 2011-11-01 at 17:08 +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

...

BTW I found out first hand a few days ago why we need a proper updater on the desktop:

No, what you found is why you should not do automated updates, and why you should have backups. :-)

No, I found why we need a proper updater. Manual updates don't work simply because users don't remember to run them regularly. That's why all desktop OS's have automatic updates, and it's time we had an automatic update program that works properly.

You will never have that. The updater may work properly, but the update itself can be bad, or some action needed aftewards, like a reboot. And the reboot can fail because the grub entry is faulty. I Have seen that more than once. I NEVER trust updates, even less automatically.

BTW I do have backups of my stuff that's on /home, but there's no point in backing up the stuff in / because it's faster to just re-install.

No, a dd is even faster. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6y0KkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U4fACfai8hOnWcXdfSz+t25u7bP1t+ l7AAn03O7k5wbFLPr2E2C2rpDUFpjBV9 =x40q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2011-11-03 at 18:51 +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

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I NEVER trust updates, even less automatically. By that logic you may as well not install software using packages at all. Of course sometimes we have packaging bugs, but it's not a reason not to have something that works for most people to keep their systems up to date.

I install updates carefully, and never automatically. I have to be there to see what happens. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk6zQXYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U8lACfT4T1VdWIjbMspZXNulZilm+l YLgAn1FGE21qhQ5JdzjiY3h+Gx/pp4za =P2qF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2011-11-20 at 14:42 -0600, Rajko M. wrote:

On Thursday, November 03, 2011 08:35:50 PM Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...

I install updates carefully, and never automatically. I have to be there to see what happens.

1) That is you, and majority of users don't apply even updates.

Shame on them! :-)

2) You are there and an error in uninstall script (like one with Bumblebee) removes your /usr instead of /usr/bin/foobin . What was advantage of you being present? :D

That I know... hopefully. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7Jjp0ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9W7JACcC9ge5nbcdzM5dxlmVMOZux20 81wAn3EeZMxfwSV4ZkZiyNgzWIHyiq7U =RXGx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2011-11-21 at 14:31 +0100, Joachim Schrod wrote:

Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Thursday, November 03, 2011 08:35:50 PM Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...

I install updates carefully, and never automatically. I have to be there to see what happens.

2) You are there and an error in uninstall script (like one with Bumblebee) removes your /usr instead of /usr/bin/foobin . What was advantage of you being present? :D

That I can select the time when that happens and it isn't done by some cron job at an arbitrary time when it's not convenient for me to trigger such an error?

It is OK, IMO, to download packages automatically, but not to install them.

And, if one does automatic updates, how does one know if one has to re-login, or even re-boot?

Exactly. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk7KWDgACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U4rACbB/OCzVZaICVQ5ZKjWtvN3EKJ XBwAnjKWk0DGYoBk+fxUw0LgxJ0EWU9G =5c8M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Monday, 2011-11-21 at 14:31 +0100, Joachim Schrod wrote:

...

Rajko M. wrote:

...

On Thursday, November 03, 2011 08:35:50 PM Carlos E. R. wrote: ...

...

I install updates carefully, and never automatically. I have to be there to see what happens.

2) You are there and an error in uninstall script (like one with Bumblebee) removes your /usr instead of /usr/bin/foobin . What was advantage of you being present? :D

That I can select the time when that happens and it isn't done by some cron job at an arbitrary time when it's not convenient for me to trigger such an error?

It is OK, IMO, to download packages automatically, but not to install them.

Yes, for sure, that's best practice, IMHO. And an email with a list of those packages where updates are available. I also check with a daily cron job if the list of "not-updated" packages is OK, or if I need to check a package for its reason why it's not updated. Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod Email: jschrod@acm.org Roedermark, Germany -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Rajko M. [11-20-11 17:15]:

On Tuesday, November 01, 2011 11:08:17 AM Tim Edwards wrote:

...

I had my netbook with me on a work trip. This netbook has a script that I dropped into cron.daily that runs zypper up. I booted the netbook up and did some stuff on it for a short time and then shut it down again, not noticing that the hard drive light was flashing hard at work doing something. On the next reboot opensuse refused to load.

Your problem is because of: 1) zypper default to download packages and install them before going to next package. Breaking that in the middle can mean broken system. Default with modern computers must be download in advance, or even better to check with package size estimates from zypper and if there is room, download all in advance, otherwise warn user that system must be running as long as update process.

it is possible to alter /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to set this as default, download in advance. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday, November 21, 2011 7:19 AM, "Stefan Seyfried" wrote:

On 21.11.2011 00:51, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

it is possible to alter /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to set this as default, download in advance.

Actually this is default for quite some time IIUC.

I don't have the netbook with me now to check what was set but it doesn't protect you if you restart the machine in the middle of it *installing* the updates, which as far as I can tell is what I did (unknowingly). Tim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 09:26:47AM +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

On Monday, November 21, 2011 7:19 AM, "Stefan Seyfried" wrote:

...

On 21.11.2011 00:51, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

it is possible to alter /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to set this as default, download in advance.

Actually this is default for quite some time IIUC.

I don't have the netbook with me now to check what was set but it doesn't protect you if you restart the machine in the middle of it *installing* the updates, which as far as I can tell is what I did (unknowingly).

That's not the only issue. Consider you have a X11 session running and then parts of your desktop environment get upgraded. I've seen this causing hanging KDE sessions several times. Microsoft Windows does it the right way. They download in background (even slowing the speed down if the link is congested) and with the next shutdown they apply the updates. Yes, even this approach has disadvantages. But to me it sounds like the most safest one. At least we have to lock the system agains reboots while updates are applied. The alternative is to apply updates if available before we allow the login from the display manager. It would be nice if the admin is able to decide between apply updates on shutdown, apply them on boot up, or apply them only on request. Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

* Roger Luedecke [2011-11-21 22:18]:

On Monday, November 21, 2011 12:44:25 PM Lars Müller wrote:

...

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 09:26:47AM +0100, Tim Edwards wrote:

...

On Monday, November 21, 2011 7:19 AM, "Stefan Seyfried"

wrote:

...

On 21.11.2011 00:51, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

it is possible to alter /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to set this as default, download in advance.

Actually this is default for quite some time IIUC.

I don't have the netbook with me now to check what was set but it doesn't protect you if you restart the machine in the middle of it *installing* the updates, which as far as I can tell is what I did (unknowingly).

That's not the only issue.

Consider you have a X11 session running and then parts of your desktop environment get upgraded. I've seen this causing hanging KDE sessions several times.

Microsoft Windows does it the right way. They download in background (even slowing the speed down if the link is congested) and with the next shutdown they apply the updates.

Yes, even this approach has disadvantages. But to me it sounds like the most safest one.

At least we have to lock the system agains reboots while updates are applied.

The alternative is to apply updates if available before we allow the login from the display manager.

It would be nice if the admin is able to decide between apply updates on shutdown, apply them on boot up, or apply them only on request.

Lars Actually, I think we cuold have a more elegant solution than either. Similar to the new kernel backup thingamajig scheme we just implemented, we could have it check during boot to make sure there wasn't an interruption in the updates and if so have it roll back those changes. This would mean having to keep copies of the packages changed; but in the back of my mind I think we could do it in a way that wouldn't require keeping every RPM ever DL'd.

That's basically reinventing Solaris boot environments which might become possible with btrfs. The basic idea is to snapshot the current root fs, clone it, mount the clone and apply the updates within the context of the clone. Then offer both the updated clone and the original environment in the grub boot menu, if everything went ok you boot into the updated clone and eventually promote it, otherwise you boot back into the original fs and destroy the clone again. To me the only sane way of applying package updates and an area where Linux is sorely lacking. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:42:51PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On Monday, 2011-11-21 at 07:19 +0100, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

On 21.11.2011 00:51, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

it is possible to alter /etc/zypp/zypp.conf to set this as default, download in advance.

Actually this is default for quite some time IIUC.

No, it is not.

By default commit.downloadMode is unset.

Doing that requires that everybody has enough disk space for that behaviour, so it is the local admin decision. The default is DownloadAsNeeded.

Also wrong. Please go back to start. "If a value is not set, empty or unknown, we pick some sane default." Lars -- Lars Müller [ˈlaː(r)z ˈmʏlɐ] Samba Team SUSE Linux, Maxfeldstraße 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany

2011/11/21 Carlos E. R. :

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Monday, 2011-11-21 at 14:25 +0100, Lars Müller wrote:

...

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 01:42:51PM +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

Also wrong.  Please go back to start.

"If a value is not set, empty or unknown, we pick some sane default."

which is...?

In 12.1 it download all packages before start installing them. Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday, October 31, 2011 21:10:52 Will Stephenson wrote:

On Monday 10 Oct 2011 11:01:20 Tim Edwards wrote:

...

Any chance that this will make it into 12.1?

Yes, Apper is making it into 12.1 and I'm working with the author to make sure it is fit for purpose.

So, how to test it? I just start apper and got a window with: "Cannot load library /usr/lib64/kde4/kcm_apper.so: (libapper.so: cannot open shared ojbect file: No such file or directory)" Lookint at the filelist, I see: /usr/lib64/apper/libapper.so - I guess that library needs to be in /usr/lib64... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/11/11 20:47, Tim Edwards wrote:

Am 02.11.2011 12:57, schrieb Andreas Jaeger:

...

On Monday, October 31, 2011 21:10:52 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

On Monday 10 Oct 2011 11:01:20 Tim Edwards wrote:

...

Any chance that this will make it into 12.1? Yes, Apper is making it into 12.1 and I'm working with the author to make sure it is fit for purpose. So, how to test it?

I just start apper and got a window with: "Cannot load library /usr/lib64/kde4/kcm_apper.so: (libapper.so: cannot open shared ojbect file: No such file or directory)"

Lookint at the filelist, I see: /usr/lib64/apper/libapper.so - I guess that library needs to be in /usr/lib64...

Andreas It runs for me on x86_64 fine.

Something I think's important is to set the apper package to 'obsolete' kpackagekit. If you just install apper (like I did) kpackagekit remains and you seem to get its evil effects coming through (100% CPU usage for no reason even when all updates are finished, long periods 'building cache' or whatever it is etc.).

The single update in the 12.1 updates repo at the moment isn't a good test so I've enabled the factory repo and had Apper update all the packages from that, over 1000 packages in all. The display screen while it's doing the download isn't very good, it just shows blank white where the list of what it's downloading should be. Also the window seems to have gone non-responsive. See http://susepaste.org/2220043

Tim

Runs fine here on x86_64 also. lancelot@slipstream:~> l /usr/lib64/libapper.so -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 316976 Oct 29 20:35 /usr/lib64/libapper.so* Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot, Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Senior Staff Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 02 Nov 2011 12:57:26 Andreas Jaeger wrote:

On Monday, October 31, 2011 21:10:52 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

On Monday 10 Oct 2011 11:01:20 Tim Edwards wrote:

...

Any chance that this will make it into 12.1?

Yes, Apper is making it into 12.1 and I'm working with the author to make sure it is fit for purpose.

So, how to test it?

I just start apper and got a window with: "Cannot load library /usr/lib64/kde4/kcm_apper.so: (libapper.so: cannot open shared ojbect file: No such file or directory)"

Lookint at the filelist, I see: /usr/lib64/apper/libapper.so - I guess that library needs to be in /usr/lib64...

How old is your apper.rpm? Its upstream buildsystem is full of odd paths, - fPIC and rpath flags added by its Debian packager, but I patched these out at the weekend. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Søndag den 9. oktober 2011 16:01:18 skrev Rajko M.:

4) It is set to make all updates, not only security. This is convenient for lazy boys, but it is stupid as in case of problems pile of software that one has to check is bigger.

At least that one can be fixed by the user if he knows how: Create /etc/PackageKit/ZYpp.conf And set: [Updates] HidePackages=true -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2011-10-09 16:01, Rajko M. wrote:

My complains from the time I used it:

Add: it ignores tabooes. It actually deletes the taboo marks. In the forum we recommend people with problems with it to disable it, or even uninstall it. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6RwlYACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UpagCfYQnNAeLB6sSsoqrTpyxsQy6U feQAoJbK5KUOUiGpLbtlFfI4Xpv9YNCz =ReU+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org